Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[Han Held]

They don’t really care about defeating Trump.

Keep on telling yourself that.
It's complete horseshit; but hey -as long as you're having fun...

 

[Han Held]

Reminder for the Centrists:

Are centrist candidates really the most "electable"? It may be the opposite - Salon.com

Despite the mainstream media's centrism fetish, voters want someone inspirational, not just "nicer than Trump"

www.salon.com

There is hard data that shows that a centrist Democrat would be a losing candidate

Economist Thomas Piketty wrote a paper about this in 2018, though the Democrats paid no attention

www.salon.com

For you reading at home:

Opinion | Centrists Are the Most Hostile to Democracy, Not Extremists (Published 2018)

Research shows that it’s not the far right or far left that is the least supportive of democracy and the most supportive of authoritarianism. It’s the center.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Han Held]

More reading about the Centrist disease, if you can stomach it:

The media’s biggest bias is its centrism

A dean of DC reporting admits an uncomfortable truth about the press.

www.vox.com

The centrist ideology is not mere institutionalism, though that’s part of it. It’s a very specific vision of how the world works, one that forms the background of a lot of Washington conversations and political debates — invisible until you notice it and then all of a sudden pervasive.


It is, also, quite unpopular: One study found just 3.8 percent of American voters could fairly be described as right-leaning on economic issues and left-leaning on social ones. Far more voters are fairly described as populist — right-leaning on social issues, left-leaning on economic ones — yet such a view has comparatively weak representation in American politics (Trump may talk like an economic populist, but he sure hasn’t governed like one).


This imbalance stems from the fact that “centrist” ideas are the province of the educated, wealthy elite.

Off topic? Not off-topic.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I know about the technology. I understand the positioning of Russia and China.

I disagree that anyone is having "some fun".

Most of all, I see how absurd I am wearing this "flower power" T-shirt in a room full of 1950's Republicans. I apologize. I'm in the wrong decade.

Now this was not the topic, was it? Your thesis was that the tensions between America and Russia are still in a state which can be resolved using diplomatics alone. And I told you: wrong.

Because it is wrong: both countries just love to meddle with the interior of the other. Russia feels surrounded by American military bases and missile launch sites, and acts according to those feelings. Those feelings won't go simply away by using diplomatics only - this needs actions.

The thing is though that since Obama a new important focus of the US Army has been moved to the sea surrounding China to contain their increase of power there. So it might be that in the not so far away future Russia move down somewhat in the priority list of the pentagon.

 

[NyteWytch]

If anyone thinks that most of us that have responded in this thread are centrist or worse....I'm not really sure what can be said.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Declaring the opponents/participants point of view as something completely different/more extreme in order to divert the attention from your own is a typical troll tactic.

It is like the old, well known example: all Nazis were socialists, because it was part of their name: national socialism. Using this trick you are disintegrating the semantic differential between the two opposite positions, because if you cannot argue against it - what would be a right position then? All are suddenly the same... this makes of course no sense at all.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Godwins Law: A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument.

 

[Salome]

If anyone thinks that most of us that have responded in this thread are centrist or worse....I'm not really sure what can be said.

It fulfills their iconoclast RP fantasies.

 

[Han Held]

Ahh Warren. Purity politics giveth and purity politics taketh away. I suspect shitting on the base for TYT fauxgressive points ain’t gonna work out like she planned now that she’s stopped promising ponies.

It fulfills their iconoclast RP fantasies.

You're the one throwing around the lefty hate, I'm basing the centrist label on your own words.

Or are you only RP'ing being the second coming of Wasserman-Schultz? Yeah -that's gotta be it. How silly of me not to see it sooner.

Far, far from iconoclastic; the links I've submitted that it is you who is out of touch and -dare I say, guilty of iconoclasm.

I'm glad I didn't put you on ignore after all -for the moment your non-sequiter ad-hominems (fauxgressives, etc) and misc asspulls are thoroughly entertaining!

 

[Han Held]

If anyone thinks that most of us that have responded in this thread are centrist or worse....I'm not really sure what can be said.

Mostly that would fit the folks who think that it's accurate to blow off The Young Turks etc as "fauxgressives".

Not sure if that's most of the thread respondants or not. I'm fresh out of apologies so if the accusation fits -too bad.

If the description doesn't fit -then it probably wasn't aimed at you.

 

[Han Held]

The Democrats' endless unicorn hunt: #TooFarLeft, or not nearly left enough? - Salon.com

Deval Patrick and Mike Bloomberg are not the answer: Committing to a coherent set of progressive principles is

www.salon.com

 

[Salome]

Yeah, who could ever imagine TYT was led by fauxgressives...

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

Most of all, I see how absurd I am wearing this "flower power" T-shirt in a room full of 1950's Republicans. I apologize. I'm in the wrong decade.

Whut?
Really, you're calling the SLU hivemind...Republicans. And not even 1970's style Rockefeller Republicans but 1950's ones? What parallel mirror universe did you come from.

This thread became Gabbard, Sanders worship with all of the rest of the candidates being lying, cheating, just as bad as Republicans thread with interspersed hand-waving away of the greatest attack upon our democracy both by Russians and by Republicans, and toss in a whole lot of HRC hate and voila we have this shit salad.

The adults are exasperated and leaving the room.

Yeah.

Warren says getting to ‘Medicare for All’ will take 3 years
Translation: this is not a priority.

Whut? What kind of mirror universe do you live in where the Republicans, hostile insurance companies/insurance industry with lots of moolah, and the Right Wing Media do not exist? Think of how hard it was to get the ACA passed. Now imagine the kind of blowback some of the proposals for banning private insurance whatsoever will play out? It'll be "Them thar yankee libruls want Death Panels" all over again.

Do you honestly believe any candidate could do an entire overhaul of our very flawed medical industry complex in their first year (or any year)? This is kinda the problem...there is no easy button for this dumb bullshit.

Damn right.

It's about priorities. A new president rides in with a lot of political capital fresh off an election, and she's not even going to try until it's so far gone.

Do you want to scare people so much we get a repeat of Newt Gingrich and the Republican class of 1994? Some Democratic president proposes your Unicorn single payer plan like the UK NHS in 2021 and all hell breaks loose.

Medicare isn't some strange extra-terrestrial creature that we need to slowly integrate into the human race.
We already know how it works and have a system to deliver it to the people who use it the most.
We already have a system in place to pay for it and most of us have paid for it for years.

And do you know how hard it was to get even Medicare into law? Yes it's a known thing now, but there was a LOT of opposition to it.
And now people are used to it as it is and are worried that ANY changes will either take it away/make it more expensive/cover less.

Flip the switch and everyone will adapt. Shock and Awe, Baby.

We're still dealing with the fallout from the Civil War and Watergate.

I would much prefer M4A be done right, with a lot of thought and consideration for how it's going to work at that scale, than be rushed out, half-baked, in order to expeditiously check off a bullet point.

Damn right.

Ahh Warren. Purity politics giveth and purity politics taketh away. I suspect shitting on the base for TYT fauxgressive points ain’t gonna work out like she planned now that she’s stopped promising ponies.

Indeed. Sanders popularity amongst the bearded fake-liberal-but-really-techno-libertarian guys and their "cool girl" compatriots. Is because they think he'll pay for their ivy league tuition and/or wipe out their student loans.

If anyone thinks that most of us that have responded in this thread are centrist or worse....I'm not really sure what can be said.

Yeeeaaaaah.

It fulfills their iconoclast RP fantasies.

Some of the Bernie Bros and their Cool Girl compatriots are grown up techno-libertarian edgelords.They think they're liberals because they don't like religion and want free college and drug legalization.

 

[Cristalle]

Whut? What kind of mirror universe do you live in where the Republicans, hostile insurance companies/insurance industry with lots of moolah, and the Right Wing Media do not exist? Think of how hard it was to get the ACA passed. Now imagine the kind of blowback some of the proposals for banning private insurance whatsoever will play out? It'll be "Them thar yankee libruls want Death Panels" all over again.

This is an inane point of view. If your candidate has a policy that you want them to put forth, you expect them to actually fight for it. Stop acting like people are stupid, ignorant or immature and don't know what this policy and the candidate (the only candidate) supporting it is up against. The question of whether any policy passes is separate from the desire to push it forward. If liberals rolled over on everything because of the opposition, we wouldn't have civil rights, women's rights, or gay rights, among others.

Do you want to scare people so much we get a repeat of Newt Gingrich and the Republican class of 1994? Some Democratic president proposes your Unicorn single payer plan like the UK NHS in 2021 and all hell breaks loose.

No one among these candidates is asking for an NHS style system, so lose that talking point.

I want people to have eyes wide open about the truth about what people are voting for. I want Warren to be honest about her position. I want Pete Buttigieg to stop lying about who supports him and his Douglass Plan. This is not to say that their own policy plans don't have their own benefits. But this is to say that the dishonesty is rankling and people who aren't partisan loyalists like many of the people here can see it, and it will hurt those people in the end.

If Warren doesn't believe in single payer, she should be honest enough to say so, like Biden and Klobuchar. But she's not. Buttigieg made his "pivot" earlier and then went to a public option that he branded "Medicare for All Who Want It." At least he was clear it wasn't Bernie's bill, or Jayapal's bill in the House. Warren is now ripping him off with a "plan" that amounts to trying to implement single payer on the 12th of Never.

And do you know how hard it was to get even Medicare into law? Yes it's a known thing now, but there was a LOT of opposition to it.
And now people are used to it as it is and are worried that ANY changes will either take it away/make it more expensive/cover less.

No shit. And it's constant fearmongering on both sides that makes this worse. This only benefits the mafia-like middlemen.

Indeed. Sanders popularity amongst the bearded fake-liberal-but-really-techno-libertarian guys and their "cool girl" compatriots. Is because they think he'll pay for their ivy league tuition and/or wipe out their student loans.

Some of the Bernie Bros and their Cool Girl compatriots are grown up techno-libertarian edgelords.They think they're liberals because they don't like religion and want free college and drug legalization.

I don't want to hear another cry about "condescension" from Sanders supporters making anyone nauseous. There's plenty of that going around.

This from the so-called adults in the room? You need to get over yourselves. I'm not a "techno-libertarian edgelord." I'm a left-leaning independent who isn't going to be a patsy for some neoliberal tool who's going to give me or other people the shiv merely because they are a person of color and/or have a vagina with a D behind their name. I also don't see why we should continue to accept politicians who are merely blue placeholders for the same policy fucking people over. This is how we got Trump, and you so-called adults can't fucking see it. But then, if all you listen to is MSDNC and CNN, that would explain why. ETA: And no, I'm not against religion, I support religion and religious freedom. I am not into drugs, but I see the benefits of legalization.

I look at policy first and I take policy seriously. It's not a cult of personality. I know it might be hard to understand, but just try to, for once.

 

[Cristalle]

Because it is wrong: both countries just love to meddle with the interior of the other. Russia feels surrounded by American military bases and missile launch sites, and acts according to those feelings. Those feelings won't go simply away by using diplomatics only - this needs actions.

It is objectively true that Russia is surrounded by American military bases and missile launch sites. And yes, Russia acts in accordance with those facts. And we continue to respond to them, and the Cold War never ceases.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

You're the one throwing around the lefty hate, I'm basing the centrist label on your own words.

Or are you only RP'ing being the second coming of Wasserman-Schultz? Yeah -that's gotta be it. How silly of me not to see it sooner.

Far, far from iconoclastic; the links I've submitted that it is you who is out of touch and -dare I say, guilty of iconoclasm.

I'm glad I didn't put you on ignore after all -for the moment your non-sequiter ad-hominems (fauxgressives, etc) and misc asspulls are thoroughly entertaining!

Why are you chasing around someone who clearly has you on ignore? This is fuckery, Capital F. Yes, I took you off ignore JUST to post this. Now, you're going back on.

You accuse the most liberal people on the planet of being centrist because they see that your entire political value system is based upon being a petulant child.

I hope you, Cristalle and Aeon enjoy this thread among yourselves, because you are chasing everyone else off with your bullshit.

 

[Essence Lumin]

I hope you, Cristalle and Aeon enjoy this thread among yourselves

Chasing people off on VVO? Hah, that will be the day. People argued for 100's of pages that bigfoot was a myth like that was ever a question.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Chasing people off on VVO? Hah, that will be the day. People argued for 100's of pages that bigfoot was a myth like that was ever a question.

Was it not clear that I mean this thread? Multiple people have already publicly stated that they are out of it due to this fuckery.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Was it not clear that I mean this thread? Multiple people have already publicly stated that they are out of it due to this fuckery.

I know you meant this thread. Maybe you and a couple of others will leave. But just like the bigfoot thread, no matter how inane people can be, there will be plenty left over to keep it going. It is the nature of VVO/SLU.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I know you meant this thread. Maybe you and a couple of others will leave. But just like the bigfoot thread, no matter how inane people can be, there will be plenty left over to keep it going. It is the nature of VVO/SLU.

Maybe, but what I see is page after page of Cristalle, Han, Aeon with a few random other posts, which then get jackpiled by said posters. As I said, enjoy.