Obnoxious things people do in debates

GoblinCampFollower

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I'm not just talking about debates on this forum, but just in general.

A big thing that drives me up the wall is when someone seems to be deliberately not using the Principle of Charity. It's often very easy to twist someone's words slightly and come up with something that makes them sound insane. I am definitely on the left myself, but I frankly think my super liberal friends are slightly worse at abusing this.

Another major fallacy that I think is more popular among my conservative friends is Poisoning the Well. Blaming inconvenient information on "liberal media" is a favorite tactic among my older relatives. They'll never, EVER assume you actually saw that yourself...
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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You know what I can't stand? "Socratic questioning." That's when instead of actually arguing a point, a person asks you a bunch of leading and loaded questions, often in combination with ever-more-restrictive hypothetical scenarios, with the aim of manipulating or forcing you into giving answers that make their argument for them. It's patronizing as f-word, so it tends to make me hate the person doing it. When I see someone start doing it to me, I start deliberately giving them answers that are as close to the opposite of what they want to hear as I can think of, purely out of spite. If you've got a point to make, freaking make it - don't try to get me to make it for you.

Note this isn't the same thing as the "just asking questions" brand of insinuation-without-a-positive-argument, although that's pretty obnoxious too.
 

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I find when I'm in a...heated discussion with a few particular people, that often the person I'm arguing with will start telling me to stop trying to yell over them, when they've been doing the same thing all along...
 

GoblinCampFollower

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Or whining about personal attacks when the whiner has been making them.

I'd seen a lot of that in some game forums today.
OOoOOooh man, I wish I had saved screen shots from an old, conservative leaning fitness message board I used to post on 15 years ago.

I was 17/18 and was just starting to turn against the Iraq war despite what I was raised to believe. I was still very conservative on most issues. I was not sure of myself, so I was being extra careful to give well thought out, respectful arguments. I talked about how much the war cost and how we were boosting anti American sentiment and how Iraq was kind of the wrong country to invade.

The responses I got from the soldiers and other conservatives on that bored were absolutely comical. Tons of absurd, macho bullshit. One soldier mostly just talked about how good a warrior he was because that was a relevant argument I guess. Literally talked about how easily he could snap necks (not as a threat, just general over compensation).

I really was trying so hard to be respectful but usually there was no effort to respond to my arguments, and they constantly brought up how young I was. One guy said in reference to me being in college "I've proven I can do what you do, now lace up your boots and we'll be even!" I literally hadn't said a word in that thread about academics, I was actually trying to talk about the damn war.

One idiot moderator literally never tried to make a real argument, but just thought his job was to come up with cute little pet names for me and the 2 other anti war people (like the three blind mice).

After a long time of abuse, I finally called Mr. Necksnapper a psycho. ...which I stand behind. That's when they decided they were too high and mighty for personal attacks.
 

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I admit, people who use buzz words and catch phrases in lieu of an actual argument or instead of even trying to make a point drive me nuts.

I encounter it mostly in Reddit, and I rarely hesitate to point out how seriously I take the opinion of someone who uses the term SJW unironically in 2018.

The other one starting to grate on me is “Virtue Signalling”. There is always a chance I would share a common opinion someone holds of a politician, because I’m critical of them all, particularly the ones I voted for, but I swear if someone drops the expression Virtue Signalling in their post I’ve unconsciously decided not to read the rest. Not only am I almost certain I won’t know what they mean by that, I’m starting to believe they don’t know what they mean by it either.
 

Lady Darnk Juniorette

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The other one starting to grate on me is “Virtue Signalling”. There is always a chance I would share a common opinion someone holds of a politician, because I’m critical of them all, particularly the ones I voted for, but I swear if someone drops the expression Virtue Signalling in their post I’ve unconsciously decided not to read the rest. Not only am I almost certain I won’t know what they mean by that, I’m starting to believe they don’t know what they mean by it either.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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OOoOOooh man, I wish I had saved screen shots from an old, conservative leaning fitness message board I used to post on 15 years ago.

I was 17/18 and was just starting to turn against the Iraq war despite what I was raised to believe. I was still very conservative on most issues. I was not sure of myself, so I was being extra careful to give well thought out, respectful arguments. I talked about how much the war cost and how we were boosting anti American sentiment and how Iraq was kind of the wrong country to invade.

The responses I got from the soldiers and other conservatives on that bored were absolutely comical. Tons of absurd, macho bullshit. One soldier mostly just talked about how good a warrior he was because that was a relevant argument I guess. Literally talked about how easily he could snap necks (not as a threat, just general over compensation)..
Well to be honest: what else did you expect from them? We all know today, and knew back then, how they've been lied to. That Saddam Hussein was never an ally of Al-Qaida, and knew on how to keep them down. After he was replaced, this opened the doors for Al-Qaida, before it was a non issue in Iraq, so it was really the USA who opened the door to Iraq for Al-Qaida in the end.

Soldiers need a reason to fight, and to motivate them it had better to be a good one; which reason would motivate you personally more to risk your life,

a) let's chase the dictator of Iraq, Hussein, who supported Al-Qaida, so that they could make their terror act in NYC, or
b) let's invade Iraq, because we do need reliable access to oil to keep our standard of living in the foreseeable future, and we cannot rely on Saudi Arabia any longer?

In my opinion it is a) - and of course the soldiers have been lied to, and exactly told stuff like that, while in reality it was all about the oil, and nothing else.

War is never fought about human rights, on the contrary: as long as dictators abide the USA's bidding, the USA never ever had any qualms to work with them and support them, this includes Saddam Hussein.The whole Western world has no problems of doing much business with China, which is for sure no prime example of human rights either.

Was is always and foremost about getting/securing access to resources, and keeping trade ways safe sometimes, and nothing else.

So of course all soldiers would cling to a), and don't want to hear otherwise, or even admit this, due to obvious reasons.

By the way, yes, probably 2 trillion US dollars or even on costs, but you got it wrong when you think that this money mostly drained away in the Iraq. If so, this would be now a very healthy country, with nice infrastructure, but is it? No. So the vast majority of this money went back in the USA, soldiers, private mercenaries, support companies, weapons/ammunition manufacturers, you get the idea, in short it benefitted the American economy.
 

Kara Spengler

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American soldiers eventually became more cynical about it, but there was a period of blind obedience after 9/11.
Yes, there was a period there where Shrub could say anything was for 'national security to prevent another/911' and most people would believe him. Damn him, he knew it and used that fact to push things through a lot of people are still regretting.

Just take stuff the TSA does. When they introduce some plan or other anyone that knows anything about security laughs and points out how easy it will be to foil whatever. Yet they still have defenders. Those people will even admit the factual point but say they would rather 'feel' safe, even if it is at the expense of everyone or actually reduces security.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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When the introduction of full body scanners was in discussion, Austrian physicist Prof. Dr. Werner Gruber showed in German television in a live show exactly how secure those scanners are:


The content of the video, with English subtitles: first Gruber steps into the body scanner, the scanner tells its operator "this guy is clean." Then Gruber starts talking, and shows all the nice goodies he had brought with him, the scanner didn't detect/or operator.

First he shows a pipette, he had hidden under his sock, telling "just put im some liquid explosives, and you've got a big enough hole in the airplane to crash it.", and then pulls out unsuspicious looking doses where he tells "and here we've got thermite. This is something used in welding, which you can get in every good drug store for a few cents, and which burns at least around 2500 up to 4000 degress Celsius, and you cannot extinguish it with water. You just need to put it where one of the major hubs of the drive-by-wire-system of a modern airplane is - which I would not tell here - and down goes the thing."

Then he showed what the amount of thermite he smuggled does to a normal frying pan.
 
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Kara Spengler

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When the introduction of full body scanners was in discussion, Austrian physicist Prof. Dr. Werner Gruber showed in German television in a live show exactly how secure those scanners are:


The content of the video, with English subtitles: first Gruber steps into the body scanner, the scanner tells its operator "this guy is clean." Then Gruber starts talking, and shows all the nice goodies he had brought with him, the scanner didn't detect/or operator.

First he shows a pipette, he had hidden under his sock, telling "just put im some liquid explosives, and you've got a big enough hole in the airplane to crash it.", and then pulls out unsuspicious looking doses where he tells "and here we've got thermite. This is something used in welding, which you can get in every good drug store for a few cents, and which burns at least around 2500 up to 4000 degress Celsius, and you cannot extinguish it with water. You just need to put it where one of the major hubs of the drive-by-wire-system of a modern airplane is - which I would not tell here - and down goes the thing."

Then he showed what the amount of thermite he smuggled does to a normal frying pan.
Have you heard about Adam Savage (Mythbusters) accidentally getting through security then realizing he was still carrying a sawblade on him? :)

The TSA announced random security checks here. Everyone pointed out how ridiculous they were but they still went ahead with them every few months. I assume they are still going on as I have yet to encounter one.

They take place at a (supposedly) random station when done. You would have to be VERY unlucky to be caught.

The worst that could happen is they ban you from the station that day. You could just walk a couple blocks to a different station or even another entrance to the same station.

They randomly (supposedly) pull people out of the faregate line and ask you to go to a table. Of course you can refuse.

They do their oh-so-thorough check of your belongings. A smart criminal would just hide stuff. Or if they were a bomber and for some reason did not opt out set off the bomb at the crowded security table.

I forgot what were the other details but it was pure comedy that anyone thought it would do anything other than give a few people warm fuzzies while everyone else was delayed getting to their destination.