Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Trump is a con artist, crook, incompetent businessman, racist, womanizer/rapist, holding no discernible morals or principles, of low intelligence, and so insanely narcissistic that he is outright delusional. All of this was well known before the election.

Tack in there onset dementia.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I just found the demand for Aeon's "valid reasons" offensive. I mean, really? There are so many of them, and it came across like there weren't any reasons to vote third party if you were in a state/jurisdiction that afforded you the opportunity to do so, as Aeon and Kara are. I can understand academically why some people might throw a middle finger to the system, but it feels like bullying. No, Aeon didn't help Trump win. States elect the president, not individuals, and Aeon's state went for Hillary by a wide margin. Aeon had the luxury of throwing up a middle finger. I didn't, and I acted accordingly.

Yes, I think it's very clear that Trump is mobbed up and loaded with dirty money that he's been laundering through his businesses. He's a liar, and a repugnant excuse for a human being. It was clear from go that he was unfit for the office. My lesser evil calculation was correct in that regard, but it's actually wrong as pertains to Syria since Trump hasn't gone whole hog there, and potentially right as it pertains to Iran. Mixed bag, obviously. We all have to choose our evils when it comes to this system, and until we have a viable third party that overtakes one of the others, we will have to keep making this calculation again and again.

It’s not offensive in politics to ask for concrete deliverables and to expect a party that wants to be in play to run local candidates.

It’s also not offensive to ask for reasons. This is how those of us who are in the crosshairs decide who is with us in the actual trench.

Disabled people in particular are constantly asked to go to the back of the line. The thing people don’t understand is that our issues are everybody’s issues. Healthcare, accessibility, housing, the safety net and an inclusive community model benefit everyone, except the right wing types trying to drive the poor to proselytizing churches for drips of support (and which the right wing churches cash in on).

I have never said that someone in a safe state shouldn’t vote for whoever. But I don’t trust any third party that doesn’t even show up.

Eighteen year old antifa kids and queer activists and old ladies in AARP manage to show up but these third parties can’t run a local candidate?

BTW, I’m now in a purple state. This is because of young Latinx Dem voters.

The purity tests thrown at Dem voters affected by bread and butter issues are coming from a place of serious privilege. I don’t trust them. They’re not being shot at in my trench.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

WE HAVE A NEW NAME!

"The Forum Mob"... I kinda like the sound of that!

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

This the the part you should be responding to: "There's one thing that we can work together on next time to beat Trump. "Blue No Matter Who" and "Stronger Together" is a two-way street. "

There is a chance to build coalition. There is a chance beat Trump.

The best chance to beat Trump was to not put him in office in the first place. You put him there, and you expect us to build a coalition with those whose judgment was clearly clouded?

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

Are there any Dems running that any significant number of Dems will refuse to vote for? Are there any Dems running that Aeon will refuse to vote for?

Given that I really don't know Aeon's position beyond "my candidate didn't win the primary so I'm going to burn democracy to the ground", I really don't know who he would refuse to vote for.

I held my nose as I voted for Hillary. But I knew it was a vote between someone who would maintain the status quo versus someone who would wipe his ass on the Constitution after shitting on the less well-to-do, and the right choice was clear as day.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

Sorry for the multiple posts. I have a lot of catching up to do in this thread.

My ideal is like the most radical Scandinavian countries. I think you should have the healthcare that you need. I think you should be provided with the income that you need. There are countries that would also provide you with some holistic therapies like massage if appropriate. I'm all for that. There are countries that would buy you a car to drive where you need to go. I'm for that. I think that we, as a society, should act like a good neighbor or family. You're human. We're human. There is nothing that has happened to you that can't happen to us. We have the resources to help your health, save you stress, and it's not a crime to give you something else just to make you happy to be alive. If we could put a man on the moon, surely we could beat some tiny countries in Europe.

Aeon, this is, by far, the most sensible thing you have said in this entire thread, if not the whole forum. I only wish you would have thought of that before casting your last vote, with the mind that everything you just listed as a value would be potentially irreparably lost if Trump won.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

The best chance to beat Trump was to not put him in office in the first place. You put him there, and you expect us to build a coalition with those whose judgment was clearly clouded?

No Katheryne, it's already been established that I didn't put Trump in the White House. If the election really hinged on my vote, then Nancy Pelosi would likely be President. My pick for President and Vice President would be dead or in prison for treason against the Plutocracy.

At this point, there is no Democratic candidate that I would refuse to vote for. I would really struggle with Biden or Harris or Booker, but I'd push the button. I would feel a sense of healing if I could push the button for Sanders. I'd feel a sense of optimism if I could push the button for Gabbard. I would like it if Marianne Williamson gets to head her Dept. Of Peace and Andrew Yang gets to head the Dept. of Monthly Freedom Dividends.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

No Katheryne, it's already been established that I didn't put Trump in the White House. If the election really hinged on my vote, then Nancy Pelosi would likely be President. My pick for President and Vice President would be dead or in prison for treason against the Plutocracy.

But this is the part I have a problem with: You had to have known, when you decided to vote third party, that it would essentially equate to a vote for Trump. Did you also honestly know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that your state was going to go to Hillary?

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Congratulations on being the recipient of the coveted name as a put down I mean first name basis... Katheryne!

Lots of interesting shit going on today when y'all done pig wrasslin.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

But this is the part I have a problem with: You had to have known, when you decided to vote third party, that it would essentially equate to a vote for Trump. Did you also honestly know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that your state was going to go to Hillary?

I guess THIS is the problem I have: I'm trying to summon my better self. I'm listening to other viewpoints. I am holding out a hand for the future. If you're a person who believes in things like Reparations, Anti-Violence, Freedom, and Peace, you had better learn to recognize what a "win" looks like when it comes knocking. You're still trying to pound that Hillary Clinton vote out of me. You'll never get it.

 

[Spirits Rising]

It really does feel as though some people have their heads both in the clouds and up their own asses where the idealist is concerned ... This isn't the 60's anymore and short of a revolution there's little chance of radical change happening in a short period of time - that is just how it is these days, like it or not.

Learn to recognize what a win looks like when it comes knocking? Hey how about some of you stow your Holier Than Thou bullshit for more than three fucking seconds and face the real world? Here in the real world, some of us simply cannot fucking afford to bet our futures and lives on an idealistic What If or on this absolutely fucking idiotic Now or Never bullshit some like to peddle (and like it or not that is exactly how some here have come across) but must instead go forward as best we can with what we have/can - even if that means moving forward slowly.

Oh believe me, I'd love nothing more than to have quite a few of the problems we face solved right the fuck now but guess what? It's simply not fucking happening..Push forward, be idealistic and work to that end goal but do not for a single fucking second try and preach to some of us as if we jjust need to believe to make shit happen (yep, that's also how it comes across) - it's absolute fucking bullshit.

Part of the reason some bring up the last election really does have to do with the attitudes some have presented along with the attitudes those around us or in our local communities have presented ... It does not fucking matter if you live in a place that voted Democrat last election cycle, a multitude of negative factors came together to give us the result we presently have. Blathering on about it doesn't change a fucking thing but for some of us it does help vent frustrations.

Are we all on the same page when it comes to this upcoming cycle? I sure as fuck hope so.

 

[Anya Ristow]

Are there any Dems running that any significant number of Dems will refuse to vote for? Are there any Dems running that Aeon will refuse to vote for?

Given that I really don't know Aeon's position beyond "my candidate didn't win the primary so I'm going to burn democracy to the ground", I really don't know who he would refuse to vote for.

At this point, there is no Democratic candidate that I would refuse to vote for. I would really struggle with Biden or Harris or Booker, but I'd push the button.

There ya have it. This is the point I was trying to make. There is no candidate running that is as divisive as Clinton. Clinton is not running. This is what recognizing victory looks like. If your objective is anyone but Trump, this should be a no-lose scenario. Unless you try to make this about what happened last time.

"You're wrong, even is you're a reluctant ally" creates other things for people to vote against. Don't do that.

 

[Spirits Rising]

The entire point sme have been making is simple: It doesn't matter how divisive a candidate is, if you're looking at more of the same vs what we ended up with ... Well guess what? You do your damnedest to make sure things do not get worse.

It is sad and (slmost) unacceptable that it took Fuckstick getting elected to drive this point home to some and wholly unacceptable that some may not have gotten the lesson/point but will simply play along for now.

That is - in part - why I react the way I do and a potential reason for the way others have reacted thus far.

Edited to add: Now being brutally honest here, if what is desired is that we move forward on the same page or as at least allies then stop bringing up the last election cycle or trying to explain why you voted the way you did back then - this goes for everyfuckingone.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

There ya have it. This is the point I was trying to make. There is no candidate running that is as divisive as Clinton. Clinton is not running. This is what recognizing victory looks like. If your objective is anyone but Trump, this should be a no-lose scenario. Unless you try to make this about what happened last time.

"You're wrong, even is you're a reluctant ally" creates other things for people to vote against. Don't do that.

That's all fine and good until you look at what we currently have due to the people who simply refused to see the extreme threat that Trump posed, despite it being out in the open. They, as Brenda explained, had the luxury of refusing to vote against him. In 3 states alone, that vote is more than the difference which put the tyrant in office. Those were *supposed* to be safe states, right? Someone living there might well have assumed that they could vote their pie-in-the-sky dreams, or rather, their hatred of the only person who could actually win against the actual tyrant who was on the ballot, and guess what they gave us; the tyrant. That very same tyrant who has done all in his power to ensure that the next election will not be secure.

Michigan: Difference between HRC/DJT; 10,704 People that voted Stein 51,463
Pennsylvania Difference between HRC/DJT: 44,292 People that voted Stein 49,941
Wisconsin: Difference between HRC/DJT: 22,278 People that voted Stein 31,072

I see no apologies from these people. I see no, "Gee, I really did screw up." All I see is continued defenses of those decisions. One person here says now that they will vote for whomever is on the ballot, not that I'm entirely convinced that isn't just a point they are trying to score right here and now, but there are more of them than this one person.

I'm not ready to forgive, nor am I going to coddle them. I don't assign equal blame as I would someone who actively voted for him, but neither will I say "What you did was only voting your conscience and you should be applauded". Their conscience should be aching pretty damn hard right now, but I see no evidence of it whatsoever. It's much harder to get rid of a tyrant once they have power than it was giving them power in the beginning.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I guess THIS is the problem I have: I'm trying to summon my better self. I'm listening to other viewpoints. I am holding out a hand for the future. If you're a person who believes in things like Reparations, Anti-Violence, Freedom, and Peace, you had better learn to recognize what a "win" looks like when it comes knocking. You're still trying to pound that Hillary Clinton vote out of me. You'll never get it.

You’re really doubling down on centering yourself here and acting like you’re doing us a big favor by listening to us at all.

I’m just not getting the vibe that you’re Left out of necessity or experience. That presents differently, as a search for fellows-in-arms.

 

[Brenda Archer]

There ya have it. This is the point I was trying to make. There is no candidate running that is as divisive as Clinton. Clinton is not running. This is what recognizing victory looks like. If your objective is anyone but Trump, this should be a no-lose scenario. Unless you try to make this about what happened last time.

"You're wrong, even is you're a reluctant ally" creates other things for people to vote against. Don't do that.

Nope. I know victim blaming when I see it and nothing is going to keep me from insisting on the truth.

Anybody who could vote for Trump or his faction at this point, fail to vote against them in a purple state, or stay home because of mouthy liberals is really a right wing person and can shove it.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

You’re really doubling down on centering yourself here and acting like you’re doing us a big favor by listening to us at all.

I’m just not getting the vibe that you’re Left out of necessity or experience. That presents differently, as a search for fellows-in-arms.

It won't be the Republicans, The Chinese, or The Russians that fire the first round of nukes. It will be the Neoliberals in the name of righteousness.

 

[Cristalle]

That's all fine and good until you look at what we currently have due to the people who simply refused to see the extreme threat that Trump posed, despite it being out in the open. They, as Brenda explained, had the luxury of refusing to vote against him. In 3 states alone, that vote is more than the difference which put the tyrant in office. Those were *supposed* to be safe states, right? Someone living there might well have assumed that they could vote their pie-in-the-sky dreams, or rather, their hatred of the only person who could actually win against the actual tyrant who was on the ballot, and guess what they gave us; the tyrant. That very same tyrant who has done all in his power to ensure that the next election will not be secure.

Michigan: Difference between HRC/DJT; 10,704 People that voted Stein 51,463
Pennsylvania Difference between HRC/DJT: 44,292 People that voted Stein 49,941
Wisconsin: Difference between HRC/DJT: 22,278 People that voted Stein 31,072

I see no apologies from these people. I see no, "Gee, I really did screw up." All I see is continued defenses of those decisions. One person here says now that they will vote for whomever is on the ballot, not that I'm entirely convinced that isn't just a point they are trying to score right here and now, but there are more of them than this one person.

I'm not ready to forgive, nor am I going to coddle them. I don't assign equal blame as I would someone who actively voted for him, but neither will I say "What you did was only voting your conscience and you should be applauded". Their conscience should be aching pretty damn hard right now, but I see no evidence of it whatsoever. It's much harder to get rid of a tyrant once they have power than it was giving them power in the beginning.

There are always, always going to be 3rd party voters. That is part of our democracy. To expect that all the people against Trump would vote for Clinton is not realistic. These voters are a tiny sliver of the population and most of these are people that would NEVER have voted Democratic anyway. More people voted for Gary Johnson than Jill Stein and you're not berating them. Why? Because they would never have voted Democratic anyway. The people to blame are the people who stayed home, since there are more of them than any single group. And some of those were not allowed to vote because of voter suppression. Voter suppression in Wisconsin alone was something like what, 200k voters? Trying to blame third party voters when someone loses is just weak sauce.

The Democratic candidate did not energize enough people to vote, and that's the story. Not enough people to overcome voter suppression. And because they were a pile of shit that allowed 1000 state houses to flip Republican, we got horrible legislatures rigging elections for a generation. The party has to be built from the ground up at the state level, like the wingnuts have done since the 70s and 80s.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

It won't be the Republicans, The Chinese, or The Russians that fire the first round of nukes. It will be the Neoliberals in the name of righteousness.

That didn't take long.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

There are always, always going to be 3rd party voters. That is part of our democracy. To expect that all the people against Trump would vote for Clinton is not realistic. These voters are a tiny sliver of the population and most of these are people that would NEVER have voted Democratic anyway. More people voted for Gary Johnson than Jill Stein and you're not berating them. Why? Because they would never have voted Democratic anyway. The people to blame are the people who stayed home, since there are more of them than any single group. And some of those were not allowed to vote because of voter suppression. Voter suppression in Wisconsin alone was something like what, 200k voters? Trying to blame third party voters when someone loses is just weak sauce.

The Democratic candidate did not energize enough people to vote, and that's the story. Not enough people to overcome voter suppression. And because they were a pile of shit that allowed 1000 state houses to flip Republican, we got horrible legislatures rigging elections for a generation. The party has to be built from the ground up at the state level, like the wingnuts have done since the 70s and 80s.

You keep saying that they should hold no responsibility or you weaken it with everything else that happened. When exactly will they own up to their part in it? I'm not seeing that happen, and it never will as long as others continue to justify it for them. As long as they never have to face it, they will probably do it again. They didn't learn the lesson after Bush/Gore/Nader and they haven't learned it this time despite the horrendous result. There has never been a more important time to vote, not for yourself, but to vote on behalf of others, to stand up against tyranny, to take a stand and they utterly fail and are proud of it.

These people are too flaky and self-serving to be counted upon as allies.