Linden Lab Lays Off 10% of Employees

Daniel Voyager

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Second Life daily user concurrency levels for October 2024 so far. I do blog updated Second Life metrics on my blog on a regular basis and on my Twitter account.

> Maximum: 41, 000 - 43, 000 (average)
> Median: 34, 000 - 37, 000 (average)
> Minimum: 26, 000 - 28, 000 (average)

Highest so far in October 2024
> 47, 121


> 26k - 43k - Current SL daily concurrency
 

Madi Perth

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Which is not to say that the ToS changes regarding child avis haven't also had an effect. But that affected a relatively small segment of the population, where the problems PBR was causing were really widespread.
Child av are not a small segment of the population. Well we are now since a great deal of us have left. It's not just the child av's that are leaving. Families are also leaving. This is what seems to be a on going assumption that people running child av's spend like RL children in SL. We don't. We have sims, estates and spend a lot of money in SL. When a child av leaves SL that is still an adult income leaving the game. Even though I do run a child av, if I decide not to renew my Prem plus account next month that is $1400 USD that will be leaving the game. Not much in the big picture but it adds up.

Also, a large number of the child av that I have talked to are choosing to ether down grade their account status or just simply stay at the free level. That too, also adds up.
 
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Madi Perth

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It's not been a good year really for the lab with all that's gone on. 2025 could see a recovery in the concurrency numbers of some sort but I think it's going to drop further sadly.
I want to see how the mobile app roll affects the numbers, but I don't have much hope in that. If the userbase continues to drop there will be a point where it will become unrecoverable. I just hope we are not at that point already.
 

Madi Perth

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And now you are spin doctoring yourself, because it does not matter if this was put forward as part of a spin by Madi or not. A flawed opinion is a flawed opinion, regardless of its underlying intentions - and I highlighted that flaw.
Except it's not a flawed option. The numbers are there and you can verify them yourself. The person who keeps track of the number even added more numbers to the pile. An without putting words in to Daniel Voyagers mouth I think his option of 2025 mirrors my own about the numbers. It doesn't look good.

There is plenty of evidence that SL is in real trouble now and it's not just a user drop. Long time creators are closing up shop, Blueberry for one. Then you have a 10% lay off at the lab. 10% of a company that has about 200 employees? That is not good no matter how you want to polish it.

An honestly it really doesn't matter if the it was a botch rollout of the tos or a botch rollout of pbr, the number uses in the last few months has dropped like a stone. But by all means continue to think its all some kind of conspiracy theory.
 

Free

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Spirits Rising

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And now you are spin doctoring yourself, because it does not matter if this was put forward as part of a spin by Madi or not. A flawed opinion is a flawed opinion, regardless of its underlying intentions - and I highlighted that flaw.

Nice try, bro, badly executed.

We should not forget about one business decision LL made in the past which can affect the popularity as well, especially in times of crisis/increasing L$ prices: the raise of the L$ exchange fee from flat to variable. This L$ buy fee is really greedy, and with L$ prices in world rising right now in some brands becomes more visible at what it impacts.
That's nice. You're ignoring entirely what my response concerns and shoehorning in your own thoughts and bias.

I don't give a flying fuck about any of your bullshit.

Own your alteration and quit trying to pass it off as factual, quit trying to excuse it.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Alexa Linden, Governance Staff among those laid off by Linden Lab

Reading this redit page and they seem to indicate that Alexa Lindens lay off might not be related to economic issues and hint at some kind of odd behavior on social platforms.

Tommy Linden was head of the governance board so he would have had a hand in the writing of the new TOS. A TOS that made a significant part of the user base unhappy causing them to leave SL. According to the numbers posted on Firestorm support that would be around 10% of the current userbase in a few months. On a platform with declining numbers a 10% drop is a huge loss. Tommy may have been shown the door because of this.
Is/was Tommy Linden "head of the governance board"? I ask because I've never been sure what Tommy and Kristin Lindens' respective roles are in the governance team, other than that, AFAIK, they both report (directly or indirectly) to Kiera Linden.

Can you help?
 

Arcane Portal

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Upon reflection, I have to admit that the sleeker SL has gotten, the less enjoyable it has become to me. Sculpties, and then mesh, all improved the visual impact of SL. which was quite dazzling, but at the same time it made building and even just "being me" more difficult.

I loved making things, even though I was never very good at it. But then, I wasn't that bad either. I might not be able to build a castle, but I could build the bar where my social life centered. When mesh entered SL, however, the differences between that and what I could cobble together were stark and I was reduced to a consumer of other people's pretty objects. Fingers crossed that their vision and sensibilities aligned with mine.
Having SL keep up with the times is important for longivity, and things do visually look better now days (or can at least), but they've essentially abandoned in-world building. Updating the in-world build tools would help a lot, what Sine Space did was a good example of the path SL could go down if they ever re-visited the build tools.

The fact that LL suddenly issued what was essentially an apology for screwing up the rollout of PBR, and announced that they were focusing immediately upon updates that would fix performance issues (in collaboration with Firestorm) suggests to me that they saw the drop, and attributed it to the problems a lot of users were having with the new PBR-enabled viewers. And they're scrambling to rectify that now.
They're scrambling to fix a lot of things these days it seems. Runatai put in a lot of work behind the scenes with people trying to get PBR to spec (with matching Substance Painter being the focus). Last I heard he knew the PBR release was borked before release, but couldn't do anything about a certain department screwing it up.

When long-time creators start leaving, that’s usually a sign things aren’t going well. Layoffs at the lab just add fuel to the fire.
Many creators are working on an off-ramp from SL at the moment. Why stay when they can go some place with properly implemented modern standards, less fees, less being overworked trying to meet event schedules, more profit for their work, and no constant toxic customer base to deal with? I wouldn't recommend SL for a job anymore unless somebody just really loves the platform. Heck, people are making bank from Sims and Fallout Patreons they only release stuff for every 3 months.
 

Soen Eber

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Be Careful What You Wish for Department:

Upon reflection, I have to admit that the sleeker SL has gotten, the less enjoyable it has become to me. Sculpties, and then mesh, all improved the visual impact of SL. which was quite dazzling, but at the same time it made building and even just "being me" more difficult.

I loved making things, even though I was never very good at it. But then, I wasn't that bad either. I might not be able to build a castle, but I could build the bar where my social life centered. When mesh entered SL, however, the differences between that and what I could cobble together were stark and I was reduced to a consumer of other people's pretty objects. Fingers crossed that their vision and sensibilities aligned with mine.

Similarly, just putting an avatar together became exponentially more complex with the advent of mesh bodies and especially mesh heads. The result was a standardized beautification industry that made it even more difficult to be an outlier -- such as an older butch woman -- than it had been in early days, and it had been hard enough back then. I identified less and less with my avatar, and perhaps it's that which snapped my frayed ties to SL.

I've moved on to Sims 4, where I can build to my heart's content. It's an empty world, devoid of ties to real people, but it's a fun sandbox.
I'm somewhat insulated in that most of my work is scripting, which hasn't changed that much. It takes longer to create the magic but the esteem and satisfaction rewards are good.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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...less being overworked trying to meet event schedules, more profit for their work, and no constant toxic customer base to deal with?
Much of what you said made some sense but these two statements strike me as bizarre. Making shit for events is 100% optional but just a way to market yourself.

Also, what mystical, magical fairy tale platform doesn't have toxic users?
 

Casey Pelous

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IMHO* the health of SL is not helped by the fact that the primary function of the "marketing" department seems to be policing the official forums to ensure that all posts are doubleplus goodthink.


* For certain values of "humble."
 

Madi Perth

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Is/was Tommy Linden "head of the governance board"? I ask because I've never been sure what Tommy and Kristin Lindens' respective roles are in the governance team, other than that, AFAIK, they both report (directly or indirectly) to Kiera Linden.

Can you help?
I thought at one meeting he was introduced as head of the governance board. I do know that him and Kiera Linden hosted the governance board meetings every second Thursday. You know when there wasn't a SLB party or he wasn't getting fired.

Tommy Linden | We’re celebrating 17 years of #SecondLife thi… | Flickr

Second Life University - Governance Tips with Keira and Tommy Linden - Featured News - Second Life Community

Second Life: Governance User Group meeting (9 May 2024) (youtube.com)

Here is listed as a "Supervisor" in the first one. The second one he is also listed as a "Supervisor" and that is from 2022. The bottom one is link to the governance meeting I attended where I think he was introduced as head of the governance board. I'm not going to go through all that text to find the spot. He may have not been head of the board, but from the way he carried himself at the meetings he was definitely a top dog.

Linden Lab has done a good job of scrubbing him from thier official website.
 
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Daniel Voyager

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From 2008 to 2010 Second Life saw the highest concurrency max peaks in the 80k – 88k range. From 2010 to 2020+ the overall concurrency has steadily come down.

From 60, 000 back in 2020 down to 41, 000 – 43, 000 as of October 2024. I think there will be slight increase for the concurrency of 5% - 10% between November 2024 to March 2025.
 

Caete

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It's never got to 100k but it's reached 88, 000+ though.

> 88, 220 – 29th March 2009 at 1:28pm SLT – highest peak ever!

It reached 60, 068 back in March 2020 during COVID pandemic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Highest Concurrency Peaks Since 2020

> 60, 068 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 20th April 2020

> 57, 746 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 29th March 2021

> 55, 737 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 6th February 2022

> 53, 567 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 30th January 2023

> 53, 016 – 19th February 2024 (so far)
Just quoting this for further into my ramble.

SL has endured all sorts of OMG TEH SKT IZ FALLERING events, from sculpts to mesh, to a new physics engine to PBR and who knows what else. Hell we even have LL making changes (or considering them) again to gachas. I've seen many friends come and go over the years, some just fading away unnoticed, some dying in RL, others just walking away from accounts to come back on a fresh one with no associated baggage. I've seen prominent builders vanish, new ones come into being. I've also seen merchants leave SL from just burning out, not so much due to SL changing. I've known some who left because of toxic communities throwing tantrums about how their ideas should be implemented into that merchants products and not caring about the merchants own vision.

I for one, have a hate/love relationship with mesh. While it does look nice, the fact there are merchants still who have sunken floors and floating floors in their awesome house pisses me off. Yes I can fix it but given the price I paid for it, why wasn't it fixed before release? I love to build and to mod. Yet I dislike some merchants because they make their builds weird. Sure it is mod but removing that wall also removes some random other piece not even close to that spot. I hate baked in shadows as well for I have to retexture a house because I have a big dark streak where a wall once was.

I just try and adapt to the changes in SL and work around the limitations I encounter for my skill set.

Did PBR chase some people away? Yes. It isn't a game killer though any more than sculpts, mesh etc were. Did it affect me? While my old laptop already freezes when I open inventory, my new machine runs SL way better than the old one ever did. I still, as of this moment, average around 275 FPS with times of being over 300 FPS using the same settings as before PBR.

Saying PBR is killing SL is no more a valid reason for a decline of users than saying the Biden/Harris administration is killing SL. Look at the bit I quoted at the start, each year they have been in power has resulted in 2K users drop in the maximum concurrency. Coincidence? I prefer to think so. SL users are growing older and often have less free time to log in.
 
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