Nobody Cares About World News

[Sid]

Luhansk and Donetsk regions recognised as independent states by Russia – as it happened

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: Zelenskiy says ‘we are not afraid’. Follow the latest updates

www.theguardian.com

Putin orders troops into eastern Ukraine on ‘peacekeeping duties’

Russian deployment follows decision to recognise territories in south-east will be viewed in Ukraine and by other western allies as an occupation

www.theguardian.com

F*ck.

 

[bubblesort]

The situation in Donetsk and Luhansk is terrible. They have been fighting there for years. Moving some troops into that area is bad, but it does not constitute an invasion. It's certainly not anything close to the World War II scale invasion that Biden and Johnson were predicting.

For anybody who wants to keep track... it's been several days since Biden's last forecast for an invasion in, "several days," and it's been one day since his most recent announcement that Russia gave the invasion order, and it's been 3 days since his last announcement that Russia gave the invasion order before that, and it's been about a week since he said that Russia would invade in two days.

See a pattern here? I honestly think Biden is delusional. I think he has dementia, and should resign, for the good of the country. This isn't just George W Bush and his minions selling us on the mushroom cloud smoking gun. For all his faults, Bush could at least sell, because he knew he had to sell when reality was working against him. Biden just keeps describing his delusions to us over and over, as if repetition will change reality. He reminds me of my father at that age.

Also, at what point do we just turn CNN, and various other news outlets off when they constantly barrage us with nothing stories like this? You can't complain the format makes it too difficult to fill the time with real news when you spend all day long, 24/7, on things that never, ever happen. That makes these outlets look like press secretaries. Journalists investigate facts. There are no journalists in these organizations.

 

[Sid]

The situation in Donetsk and Luhansk is terrible. They have been fighting there for years. Moving some troops into that area is bad, but it does not constitute an invasion. It's certainly not anything close to the World War II scale invasion that Biden and Johnson were predicting.

What do you call moving troops uninvited into another sovereign country?
That is not a courtesy call. That's an invasion in my book.

WWII didn't start as a full blown war either.
First there was Der Anschluss when Austria became (under heavy pressure) part of The German Reich. Next step was Heim ins Reich (Back into Germany) meaning de facto confiscating Südetenland and then came the invasion of Poland.

What Russia is doing has a lot of similarity with what the Germans did back then. Testing how far they can move on and grow influence on territory.
First the Crimea and now more or less the confiscation of two more parts of the Ukraine.

Edit to add: It is for you not in your back yard, but I don't think you would be talking like this if Russian troops would role into the Yukon and British Columbia to protect them against nothing, instead of the Ukraine thousands and thousands of miles away.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

The situation in Donetsk and Luhansk is terrible. They have been fighting there for years. Moving some troops into that area is bad, but it does not constitute an invasion. It's certainly not anything close to the World War II scale invasion that Biden and Johnson were predicting.

For anybody who wants to keep track... it's been several days since Biden's last forecast for an invasion in, "several days," and it's been one day since his most recent announcement that Russia gave the invasion order, and it's been 3 days since his last announcement that Russia gave the invasion order before that, and it's been about a week since he said that Russia would invade in two days.

See a pattern here? I honestly think Biden is delusional. I think he has dementia, and should resign, for the good of the country. This isn't just George W Bush and his minions selling us on the mushroom cloud smoking gun. For all his faults, Bush could at least sell, because he knew he had to sell when reality was working against him. Biden just keeps describing his delusions to us over and over, as if repetition will change reality. He reminds me of my father at that age.

Also, at what point do we just turn CNN, and various other news outlets off when they constantly barrage us with nothing stories like this? You can't complain the format makes it too difficult to fill the time with real news when you spend all day long, 24/7, on things that never, ever happen. That makes these outlets look like press secretaries. Journalists investigate facts. There are no journalists in these organizations.

You do know it never starts with a full blown WW right? Look at history - when WWII was just starting up? It was just invading a neighboring country, but who cares - its an eastern european country; doesn't affect us, now does it? Then it was some little western european countries... then they started bombing the UK.

And same with the western theater stuff.

Learn some history, look at things properly - also, if Putin invades when anyone predicts he will, then he is less the strong man. He has to do it on his own terms, so Biden saying something is likely forestalling it.

But sure, its because he's senile and trying to justify an invasion. The senility being pushed by the Right? Russian propaganda by any other name [well, Putin propaganda, but as far as the Russian government, same damn thing.


ETA Great minds and all, Sid

 

[Soen Eber]

An old but brutally honest classic:

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

So, Russia has invaded the Ukraine, mothers are putting stickers with their children's blood type on their clothes before sending them to school, and reports indicate Ukrainians are being marked to be killed or sent to camps.

But sure, Biden is senile and should step down.

Please stay safe everyone, looks like WWIII is upon us.... I wonder what the clock is set to now.

eta: 100 seconds.... less than 2 minutes.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

What do you call moving troops uninvited into another sovereign country?
That is not a courtesy call. That's an invasion in my book.

WWII didn't start as a full blown war either.
First there was Der Anschluss when Austria became (under heavy pressure) part of The German Reich. Next step was Heim ins Reich (Back into Germany) meaning de facto confiscating Südetenland and then came the invasion of Poland.

What Russia is doing has a lot of similarity with what the Germans did back then. Testing how far they can move on and grow influence on territory.
First the Crimea and now more or less the confiscation of two more parts of the Ukraine.

Edit to add: It is for you not in your back yard, but I don't think you would be talking like this if Russian troops would role into the Yukon and British Columbia to protect them against nothing, instead of the Ukraine thousands and thousands of miles away.

So, because Putin isn't operating exactly on Biden's timeline, Biden must have dementia and should resign.

You have lost what little credibility you had left with me. You are no better than the MAGAts.

Putin has moved troops into the Ukraine, uninvited. If that isn't an invasion, I don't know what is. It sure ain't no fucking tea party.

Edit: I meant to quote Bubblesort's post above the one I accidentally quoted. This was aimed at him.

 

[Chalice Yao]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has recognized the independence of two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.

He made the announcement in a televised speech to the nation on Monday night.

The Russian leader signed a decree recognizing the self-proclaimed "Donetsk People's Republic" (DPR) and the "Luhansk People's Republic" (LPR) as independent.

It laid out plans for "aid agreements" between Russia and the two separatist territories.

Oh, he's definitely not moving troops there for 'peacekeeping'. For him, those regions are now an easy gift-wrapped present, given that the ukrainian rebels are also quite pro-putin in the first place. The fact that the conflict flared up hard just before he was ready to make his move also surely isn't a coincidence in light of this.

 

[Sid]

So, because Putin isn't operating exactly on Biden's timeline, Biden must have dementia and should resign.

You have lost what little credibility you had left with me. You are no better than the MAGAts.

Putin has moved troops into the Ukraine, uninvited. If that isn't an invasion, I don't know what is. It sure ain't no fucking tea party.

Eh... I think you quoted the wrong person here,
At least I hope.

 

[bubblesort]

What do you call moving troops uninvited into another sovereign country?
That is not a courtesy call. That's an invasion in my book.

Yeah, at first I paused for a moment when I saw the news, because I agree with you. I would count this as an invasion, too, normally. In this case, though, the press has been feeding us such massive levels of misinformation, I wait a little while before moving to conclusions like that. Sometimes it's best to let things settle a bit so we don't go crazy. For example, Bloomberg reported that Russia invaded Ukraine 2 and a half weeks ago. It took a few hours for others to correct that misinformation for Bloomberg, who just silently took down the error, rather than composing a proper retraction.

So I gave this news a few hours to settle, and this time that paid off.

Biden himself is not calling this an invasion. CNN said that the white house was quite explicit that this is not an invasion yet. So even when Biden is right, he's insisting that he's wrong. Why is it not an invasion, though? I mean, I was all ready to agree with you, but Biden says I was right.

Maybe it's not an invasion because it's part of a treaty that Russia is allowed to send peacekeeping troops to Donetsk and Luhansk? I have heard that, but I've also heard that this is a violation of international law, and I tend to believe the international law argument more. Another explanation might be that Biden is moving the goal posts, because he is too much of a coward to sanction Russia for invading. This seems more believable to me.

WWII didn't start as a full blown war either.
First there was Der Anschluss when Austria became (under heavy pressure) part of The German Reich. Next step was Heim ins Reich (Back into Germany) meaning de facto confiscating Südetenland and then came the invasion of Poland.

What Russia is doing has a lot of similarity with what the Germans did back then. Testing how far they can move on and grow influence on territory.
First the Crimea and now more or less the confiscation of two more parts of the Ukraine.

Oh, come on. Not everything is like World War II. My neighbor got up yesterday and had a vegan breakfast, then he got a rejection letter from art school, and drove a Volkeswagon to work. Does that make him Hitler?

The fact is, the troop numbers alone don't support the assertion that this conflict can be on the same, "scale as World War II." That's what we're talking about with this comparison: scale. Putin could create that kind of problem, if he turned his entire economy to war or something, like Stalin, but for all his faults, Putin is no Stalin. Also, as much as he denies it, Putin is having problems with Kazakastan in the East. He can't fight on two fronts like this.

One thing to keep in mind is that in America, we hear World War II comparisons differently than Europeans. Our dumbest pundits are obsessed with comparing everything with World War II. World War II comparisons are kind of short hand for "I'm a right wing dummy!" Look up Glenn Beck some time, he's the kind of person we see making these comparisons, most of the time.

Edit to add: It is for you not in your back yard, but I don't think you would be talking like this if Russian troops would role into the Yukon and British Columbia to protect them against nothing, instead of the Ukraine thousands and thousands of miles away.

Yeah, I hope it doesn't get too bad. I doubt the problems east of you will travel too far, but crazy things happen. Stay safe!

 

[Sid]

Oh, come on. Not everything is like World War II. My neighbor got up yesterday and had a vegan breakfast, then he got a rejection letter from art school, and drove a Volkeswagon to work. Does that make him Hitler?

Eh?
I raise you with fish and chips, Gettysburg, baloney, Austin Martin and Max Verstappen.
That doesn't make any sense either.

If you don't see a similar strategy in what Putin is doing, you better rethink. This invasion can easily end up in a massive war. I sure hope not, but it is a realistic possibility. Putin is eying on recuping the Baltic states for a long time already as well. And that is NATO territory, neighboring Russia and the Ukraine.

BTW: when Hitler was starting, a lot of people did not see (or did not want to see) what was happening either.
Most Dutch people thought even the day before the Germans invaded our country, that we could stay neutral in that conflict, although German troops were building up along our border with Germany for weeks already, in numbers we never could hold up against. And we couldn't.

 

[Chalice Yao]

Oh, he's definitely not moving troops there for 'peacekeeping'. For him, those regions are now an easy gift-wrapped present, given that the ukrainian rebels are also quite pro-putin in the first place. The fact that the conflict flared up hard just before he was ready to make his move also surely isn't a coincidence in light of this.

Also (lol quoting myself), spinning that further , those regions are now essentially lost to the Ukraine, as fighting the rebels in them would now run risk of 'friendly fire' with the Russian troops.

Plus, the rebels might now have a miraculously better supply line for some reason. And if the rebels decide and manage to expand those territories, Russia might just follow behind. You know. For 'peacekeeping' in that newly aquired space. They're not really invading. Wink wink. Nudge.

 

[bubblesort]

Also (lol quoting myself), spinning that further , those regions are now essentially lost to the Ukraine, as fighting the rebels in them would now run risk of 'friendly fire' with the Russian troops.

Plus, the rebels might now have a miraculously better supply line for some reason. And if the rebels decide and manage to expand those territories, Russia might just follow behind. You know. For 'peacekeeping' in that newly aquired space. They're not really invading. Wink wink. Nudge.

I can agree with that. At the same time, the forecasts I was objecting to were more along the lines of Russia moving in and taking everything, all the way to the Polish border. Russia still hasn't done that, and I still think that wont' happen. That's what I saw Blinken describe in interviews, though.

Now it looks like the Biden administration was describing things that way to avoid having to follow through on their sanction threats. Putin called their bluff, so here we are... by not responding, the West has de facto agreed that Donesk and Luhansk are independent, and that Russia's troops are peacekeepers, not invaders, or occupiers.

 

[Sid]

This is not about Biden.
Nor about the way news is brought in the USA. I couldn't watch CNN for hours.
It is about what is happening in eastern Europe.
You might want to concentrate on BBC World News or the Guardian. They are not that overwhelming.

 

[Chalice Yao]

by not responding, the West has de facto agreed that Donesk and Luhansk are independent, and that Russia's troops are peacekeepers, not invaders, or occupiers.

US, UK and European sanctions target Russian economy and oligarchs – as it happened

US and UK curbs on Russian banks and oligarchs are welcomed by Ukraine as strong ‘first move’; Zelenskiy rules out a general mobilisation

www.theguardian.com

Boris Johnson to announce ‘barrage of UK sanctions against Russia’

UK prime minister says sanctions will ‘hit Russia very hard’ as ministers assert invasion of Ukraine has begun

www.theguardian.com

'The West' is responding. The days where 'The USA' equaled 'The West' have started fading out a while ago.

 

[bubblesort]

US, UK and European sanctions target Russian economy and oligarchs – as it happened

US and UK curbs on Russian banks and oligarchs are welcomed by Ukraine as strong ‘first move’; Zelenskiy rules out a general mobilisation

www.theguardian.com

Boris Johnson to announce ‘barrage of UK sanctions against Russia’

UK prime minister says sanctions will ‘hit Russia very hard’ as ministers assert invasion of Ukraine has begun

www.theguardian.com

'The West' is rsponding. The days where 'The USA' equaled 'The West' have started fading out a while ago.

LOL, yeah, you got me there. My dad was an old cold warrior, so I did kind of grow up with that stupid old school cold war mindset that America is the west. I need to remember to loosten up my thinking a bit, sometimes. Old habits die hard.

 

[Soen Eber]

Look, it's a simple formula. The U.S. is the bellicose one because we're (1) the biggest and (2) the furthest away, the British ship the arms because they're just close enough to be immediately helpful and just far away enough to be relatively safe, and the French and Germans are the peace keepers playing good cop to the US's bad cop. Every leader with an shred of intelligence coordinates and harmonizes on this basic NATO response. This time around Germany got trapped by allowing themselves to be overly dependent on gas exports, but this sort of interdependence is how Europe binds themselves into a peaceful trading society and that was the goal with Russia - who now has to deal with a huge lack of export sales. Biden was only willingly playing his part in a strategy that has worked for generations because he's a good ally and a good team player. Now he's backing off somewhat and Germany and the rest of Europe has advanced because reality has shifted and NATO has to play for time and hope Putin is "satisfied" in the way Bismark was "satisfied" so there is time to help reenforce the Ukraine for the next act in the play.

The only one who has gone rogue here has been Putin.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Look, it's a simple formula. The U.S. is the bellicose one because we're (1) the biggest and (2) the furthest away, the British ship the arms because they're just close enough to be immediately helpful and just far away enough to be relatively safe, and the French and Germans are the peace keepers playing good cop to the US's bad cop. Every leader with an shred of intelligence coordinates and harmonizes on this basic NATO response. This time around Germany got trapped by allowing themselves to be overly dependent on gas exports, but this sort of interdependence is how Europe binds themselves into a peaceful trading society and that was the goal with Russia - who now has to deal with a huge lack of export sales. Biden was only willingly playing his part in a strategy that has worked for generations because he's a good ally and a good team player. Now he's backing off somewhat and Germany and the rest of Europe has advanced because reality has shifted and NATO has to play for time and hope Putin is "satisfied" in the way Bismark was "satisfied" so there is time to help reenforce the Ukraine for the next act in the play.

The only one who has gone rogue here has been Putin.

And one could argue that Putin is being utterly predictable. I mean, I expected this sooner, but I'd guess he was hoping people wouldn't think about how he's already done this to the Ukraine 8 years ago.

 

[bubblesort]

Sanctions are so weird! I've been noticing around people keep saying sanction X to punish Russia! Replace X with any random country or company the speaker doesn't like. Earlier today, I saw that the fist sanctions Biden put in place were against Donesk and Luhansk (the 'independent' regions Russia is in now), which is a little strange, since those sanctions were announced before sanctions against Russia itself were announced.

The Guardian wants to sanction Belarus.

Foreign Policy wants to sanction China.
(that might have to do with China's announcement today that they are sanctioning Raytheon and Lockeed, for arming Taiwan)

Never let a good crisis go to waste, I guess.

In a totally unrelated thing... my neighbor has a Putin campaign sticker on his truck! Can we sanction him until he returns my leaf blower? er, I mean... until he withdraws his support for Russia?

 

[danielravennest]

Another explanation might be that Biden is moving the goal posts, because he is too much of a coward to sanction Russia for invading. This seems more believable to me.

You were saying?

U.S. hits Russian banks, elites with sanctions over Ukraine crisis

MOSCOW/DONETSK/WASHINGTON, Feb 22 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden on Tuesday revealed new sanctions on Russian elites and two banks as the West tries to stop an all-out invasion of Ukraine by punishing Moscow for ordering troops to two separatist regions it has recognised.

The European Union, Germany and Britain also announced ways they will hit Russia financially as they fear a further incursion is to come, a move Moscow has consistently denied for months.