Covenant Dispute

Argent Stonecutter

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People use yoga-mats, exercise-bikes, and even sex-beds to imagine themselves fucking.
No problem here.
People use yoga-mats, exercise-bikes, and even sex-beds to imagine themselves exercising.
This is where the WAT comes in.
Since you are comparative-logic illiterate
The logical fallacy you are using is "false equivalence".
A dance-pole does not magically transform a house into a titty-bar.
Never even implied it. Just ROFL at the "exercise".
 

Lex

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Neo, i do understand what you are saying, but there are times when moral highground is better, and when there is a fire, there is no need to stoke it.

I still disagree with the landlords actions, despite Kimba acting like a petulant child.

Imagine for a moment that the landlord would just say " I understand that our covenant doesn't meet your needs, we normally don't offer any refunds at all, but please take this partial refund as a token of our good will to resolve the dispute. The parcel needs to cleared out within the next hour, so you have some time to remove any no-copy objects, then i will clear the rest of the parcel for you."

Would this thread and headache happen then? Most likely not. If it did still, it would paint the landlord in a very positive manner, because they did nothing wrong, and didn't try to punish anyone in "spite", or act like jerks in return. It's not tit-for-tat.

PS: In my line of work, i often have to throw peoples items away, some of them rather expensive, in the trash right in front of them. We have 94-96% customer satisfaction. How does the saying go, "kill them with kindness" ?
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Would this thread and headache happen then? Most likely not. If it did still, it would paint the landlord in a very positive manner, because they did nothing wrong, and didn't try to punish anyone in "spite", or act like jerks in return. It's not tit-for-tat.
Most likely this thread would have happened due to the fact that this would have only been a partial refund then. People like Kimba never settle for a compromise, they want the whole cake back.
 

Eunoli

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Neo, i do understand what you are saying, but there are times when moral highground is better, and when there is a fire, there is no need to stoke it.

I still disagree with the landlords actions, despite Kimba acting like a petulant child.
When I was a landlord, I gave full refunds for time remaining each time I evicted someone. Its not a standard business practice, but it seemed like the right thing to do to me.

That said, I think every SL business owner needs to be aware of the fact that anyone working for them is getting peanuts compared to RL work and/or volunteering their time because they believe in a sim/concept. In those kind of situations, a sim-owner (or at least me) will often have a 'no abusing my employees' policy with zero tolerance. They owe it to those employees, far more than one abusive client.

Could have been handled better, in my opinion. But, I would have still evicted were it my sim.
 

Eunoli

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I might also add that I was thinking about breaking up my sim into parcels and renting them out since I've been disgustingly slow in creating a new build. This thread has changed my mind about that.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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In that case you might need to file a support ticket to get access to Unpackistan sim. Linden trees can only be rezzed on land you can terraform.
Here sim would have been the place to go but that vanished with Torley.
Fionalein never did get properly thanked for this. :flower:
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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If anyone wanted a precursor as to what it'll be like getting Trump out of the White House, here it is.
 

Lex

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When I was a landlord, I gave full refunds for time remaining each time I evicted someone. Its not a standard business practice, but it seemed like the right thing to do to me.
Thank you for your reply. I also believe in full refunds, but i understand that it can be justified to make a deduction when an issue is being lengthy.


Also from my experience, when customer service doesn't have a "kick them to the curb" attitude, they are also overall treated better by customers in general.
When i train new colleagues at work, i share that little bit with them too. It's less stressful to be calm and kind, than returning someones attitude. Most of the time people will settle down even. My work is in law enforcement, so we can both treat people pretty poorly and still have all rules on our side, but it's really not worth the stress to return anger with anger.
 

Eunoli

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Also from my experience, when customer service doesn't have a "kick them to the curb" attitude, they are also overall treated better by customers in general.
This is true. Its a fine line, where you try to work with people and help them. You should be pleasant and friendly. But, when a line is crossed, its crossed and its time to stop before the drama grows exponentially or starts to turn things very unpleasant for volunteers/workers.
 
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Lex

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This is true. Its a fine line, where you try to work with people and help them. You should be pleasant and friendly. But, when a line is crossed, its crossed and its time to stop before the drama grows exponentially or starts to turn things very unpleasant for volunteers/workers.
Imo that depends. If you can take it while remaining calm (as in this example, and underhanded unpleasant comment) then let it play out, and explain what will happen next. The whole crux is that the second you start craving some sort revenge, you aren't the right person dealing with the incident, and should hand it over. Just let it go. Sometimes the person settles down and apologizes after.

Some people are really jerks, usually just in the given situation. You can't change them, but you can change your own actions, and with that change how they act towards you, to some extent. Once you realize you can in most cases change how people act towards you, it's like a superpower.

The really problematic part in all text-driven interaction is that the other person can and will project tone of voice and facial expressions onto you, that is fitting their own narrative. It is really hard to overcome. At the same time, one should be aware that this projection happens both ways, and is a source of uneccesary conflict.


TL:DR:

Refund, make business look good, smile and wave them off on their merry way. The quicker and smoother it goes, the better for all involved.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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It never even occurred to me that real-estate agent would think I was telling her to fuck-off and die.

All I am saying is that people who actually know me would probably agree that fuck-die was directed at the complaining-neighbor, not the real-estate agent.
There's your problem, though -- you're dealing here with people who don't actually know you, and whom you have caused to form the firm opinion, by what you've posted here (and that's all that we have to go on) that it wasn't directed at the neighbour at all.

More importantly, though, you've certainly given that impression to the landowners and the estate manager, and it's their views that matter in this context.
 
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Monica Dream

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Kimba is a leftist communist, and here's why:

* behaves like the typical leftist special snowflake
* complains about being always discriminated by others
* wants to rob people of their hard earned money, so does not respect private property
* thinks that contracts are non-binding and can be bend by him to his own liking without consensus of the other party, which is typical for a communist who wants to redefine the world
 

Monica Dream

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Kimba is a leftist communist, and here's why:

* behaves like the typical leftist special snowflake
* complains about being always discriminated by others
* wants to rob people of their hard earned money, so does not respect private property
* thinks that contracts are non-binding and can be bend by him to his own liking without consensus of the other party, which is typical for a communist who wants to redefine the world
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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That makes sense; still pretty wtf (to me, at least)
Once long ago in SLU.

Some lolbertarian troll started copypasting whole lolbertarian troll articles.

So I said by ignoring intellectual property rights and treating private property as a public good he is a communist and hates America.

Y'all laughed.

And we never saw him again, at least under that name.
 

Kimba

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Let's see if I can sum this up. In real-time, if my landlord believed that I had broken the lease-agreement, they could NOT evict me, until they had proved it in court that I had IN-FACT broken the lease agreement, especially in a case where the landlord says that I broke the agreement, but I deny breaking it. This is why there are contract-attorneys and civil-courts: To litigate these kind of disputes. I had agreed that I could be evicted without refund, if I broke the land agreement. I had not agreed that I could be evicted for any reason or false reason. But, let's suppose that the landlord actually had thrown my stuff onto the sidewalk and locked me out - then I could sue him. Not just for the stolen rent-money, but for punative-damages, lost-items, moving-expenses and my legal-fees, not to mention their legal-costs, lost-time from work, $20 parking in the court-garage, security-checkpoints, disease-exposure, et al. These kinds of potential negative consequences deter landlords from taking rash action, and encourage people to negotiate and compromise.

But, instead of a legal-system with a means to seek redress for suffering tortious-offense, this particular-agreement has no clear way to be appealed. Not only does the lessee seem to have no redress, but the landlord knows the lessee has no good form of redress. Therefore, not only is the landlord not motivated to negotiate, or compromise - they are amotivated to do so. The easiest way for the landlord to deal with it, and the best monetary outcome for the landlord is the same thing: Evict without refund, and rerent the parcel. Occam's razor.

In the Homeric Dialogues, the question is posed to Socrates “What should a moral-man do when confronted with a bad or immoral law?” Socrates argues that the moral-man is obligated to break and oppose the immoral law, despite inevitable negative consequences, and personal cost. Only by this method, which Thoreau would later label “civil-disobedience” will immoral-laws eventually be changed. This same logic applies to standing-up for oneself, when one has been wronged, and for standing up to bullies. It's not the $10, it's the principle of the thing, as well as the negative emotional consequences of NOT standing up for myself. One definition of activism is: When their seems to be no way to effectively protest, find a way.

I wish that there had been a nice, polite, friendly, above-board, legal, ethical, and popular way to seek redress for my grievance. Since there is not, I regrettably am forced by Socrates' impeccable-logic, to seek redress or retribution, by whatever means will work. I had paid early for my next-week, and all I asked for was the return of that money, not even recompense for lost no-copy items. It seems a reasonable request, but Katya believed that she had no need to be reasonable, because I had no recourse. So I told her, “I can make it cost you more than 2200 to not repay the 2200, so the wise-course is to repay the money.” She did not agree with my logic, so I was forced to prove my point in a concrete, measurable, and ongoing way.

I regret that this made me do some things that I would have preferred not to do. I regret that some of you feel that I used this forum, which we all value for numerous other reasons, for my own selfish, personal ends. I would have liked it better if more of you had understood the logic of my argument, and agreed with the righteousness of my activism. But, I guarantee you that Weezles Real Estate wishes that they had given me the 2200, and is less likely to misbehave like this in the future. If you want to make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs.
 
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