Covenant Dispute

[Free]

It's just like the old SLU days.

 

[Kimba]

First yes Kimba was evicted from one of my parcel regions due to her fuck off and die comment to my staff member.

You continue to mischaracterize my follow-up question about what I could or could not change the name to, as disrespect to your staff member. You are a mind-reader? You wanted me off the land, fine. All you had to do was return the 2200L that I was entitled-to, and none of this would have happened. You were particularly evil to not allow me to pick up my no-copy stuff, that was lost, when you mass-returned it, for no reason, since I was there, on the land, when you did it. You really expect me to just stand-by, do nothing, let you get away with it, and abuse the next person even worse? If that makes me toxic, then I will wear that label. But to me I am an activist who stands up to bullies. I promised I would cost you more than 2200L in lost revenue, and aggravation; I hope you will eventually learn this lesson and reform your bad-behavior going forward.

 

[Kimba]

The other issue here is that we did ask her to simply change the title as clubs were not allowed on the sim and remove anything major (like tip jars) off. We do not have any land that allows regular clubs. We have adult land that allows adult clubs. It's simply a choice that was made due to how often the EM's had to fix issues from griefing on those sims, and dealing with others leaving because of that type of thing.

The name was already changed. It was never a club. There were no tip-jars or anything similar. I would have named the land Fuck-Off & Die; it is an adult sim. Nobody who knows me would dispute that I would call it that, to needle the crybaby who complained about the other name, or out of frustration with today's world. You said no, I couldn't name it that, so I named it something else. I thought that was the end of it, and it should have been. Except for you being a hothouse-flower. I was not insulting you. Now, you have put me in the position where I have to be an activist, standing up to bullies, and I am not ashamed that is how I operate.

BTW: How do you know what Katya and Acid did or did not say to me? You can't know, you know you can't know, and we all know you can't know. But, I admire your loyalty, to lie for them.

Both you and Katya, you are pretty arrogant to jump to conclusions and act on them, instead of talking to the other person to see if there was a misunderstanding, or to patch things up, or to seek compromise. And you criticize my behavior? Have at.

And I say the same to the other mind-readers on this thread. You don't know me, and you have no idea why I said what I said. The arrogance is staggering. It's one thing to think what you want to think, but something quite else entirely to believe that you have the capability to know another person's mind and motivations, and another whole level to then express that to other people. You are being more abusive to me with your supposed mindreading, than you are claiming that I was to them. But you think it is ok, because it is you doing it, and you don't use swear-words.

 

[Aki]

BTW: How do you know what Katya and Acid did or did not say to me? You can't know, you know you can't know, and we all know you can't know. But, I admire your loyalty, to lie for them.

LOL. You make it sound like EMs never talk to each other behind their customers' back. If you truly believe this, I have a bridge to sell you.

I would have named the land Fuck-Off & Die; it is an adult sim. Nobody who knows me would dispute that I would call it that, to needle the crybaby who complained about the other name, or out of frustration with today's world.

This is pretty disingenuous. You know it's rude - you claim people who know you would know it's within your wheelhouse, so clearly you understand that people who don't would consider it rude. What business do you have slinging that BS at someone you don't know? If anyone should be considered a crybaby, it's you for claiming you're the victim for doing this.

 

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

I move to have the thread renamed to "Fuck off & pie".

All who agree pie, all apoozed eggplant.

 

[Essence Lumin]

 

[Lady Darnk Juniorette]

DO NOT SUBVERT THE VOTING SYSTEM!

 

[Kimba]

LOL. You make it sound like EMs never talk to each other behind their customers' back. If you truly believe this, I have a bridge to sell you.

This is pretty disingenuous. You know it's rude - you claim people who know you would know it's within your wheelhouse, so clearly you understand that people who don't would consider it rude. What business do you have slinging that BS at someone you don't know? If anyone should be considered a crybaby, it's you for claiming you're the victim for doing this.

I don't doubt that they talk to each other, I doubt that they tell the truth.

Your logic is flawed too. At least five people on this very thread have said that my question (Can I name the land Fuck-Off & Die?) was a rude insult directed at the landlord's agent, and I rebutted that by saying, "Anybody who knows me ......." That is pretty concrete and straight-forward. On the other hand, nobody is disputing that the other people think my question was really an underhanded insult. So the only thing I am slinging is undisputed-fact, acknowledged as fact by those who spoke it. "They think it was an insult, not a question" is an undisputed fact. "It was an insult, not a question" is merely an opinion, and in this case, an incorrect one.

I hope that was helpful to your understanding of this complicated situation. But, if you want something else complicated to ponder, how about this: The rule is against abuse. You say rude. Does rude constitute abuse? Even if I had meant it the way some think, it's not really abuse.

 

[Free]

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

DO NOT SUBVERT THE VOTING SYSTEM!

This inspires me. We need a Disco Ball button.

 

[Free]

This inspires me. We need a Disco Ball button.

And a subvert one.

 

[Aki]

Your logic is flawed too. At least five people on this very thread have said that my question (Can I name the land Fuck-Off & Die?) was a rude insult directed at the landlord's agent, and I rebutted that by saying, "Anybody who knows me ......." That is pretty concrete and straight-forward. On the other hand, nobody is disputing that the other people think my question was really an underhanded insult. So the only thing I am slinging is undisputed-fact, acknowledged as fact by those who spoke it. "They think it was an insult, not a question" is an undisputed fact. "It was an insult, not a question" is merely an opinion, and in this case, an incorrect one.

Clearly you've missed the point. You know it's rude. Whether people who 'know' you would give it a pass is immaterial.

Let's put it this way: It's a shitty thing to tell people to 'Fuck off and Die'. Would you say the same to your server at a restaurant? A clerk at your bank? A cop who pulls you over for a routine traffic ticket? How would any of these people who don't know you they tell if you were serious or just joking?

Kimba. Let's pretend I'm telling you. Fuck off and die.

You don't know me. Am I serious or just joking? And whether either is the case is wholly immaterial. You couldn't get around RL treating people this way, why would you do so in SL?

I hope that was helpful to your understanding of this complicated situation. But, if you want something else complicated to ponder, how about this: The rule is against abuse. You say rude. Does rude constitute abuse? Even if I had meant it the way some think, it's not really abuse.

it's 100% abuse and I wouldn't have stood for it either. It's not complicated.

 

[Zel Colton-Huntsman]

Hello everyone. I am a long term tenant of W Real Estate and have now work for them off and on for two years. I can confirm exactly what was said to the tenant, without the need for Breaking TOS and pasting chat logs. She has the word 'Club' and 'Clubhouse' on her small parcel which was on a residential only region. The friendly request sent to her was to ask her to remove the word 'Club' from the name of her parcel, and to lift anything that was club related. Ie Dance poles. There was no mention of a flag pole. The response of 'Can I call it Fuck off and die' was nothing but immature and petty, and regardless of what was said, an insult to myself who was simply doing the job I am requested to do.
If someone cannot be bothered to read a covenant in full before purchasing, or cannot be bothered to stick to the rules of that covenant, the fault is theirs in its entirety. No amount of passing the blame back to the Estate owner is going to fix the problem. The best solution for all here is to admit you were wrong and let it be. But I won't stand for a reputable company like W Real Estate or its staff being slandered for one persons stupid mistake.

 

[Lyndka Cochrane]

You couldn't get around RL treating people this way, why would you do so in SL?


it's 100% abuse and I wouldn't have stood for it either. It's not complicated.

Aki - It's a growing "thing" in SL to treat & talk to folks in ways they wouldn't do it in "Real Life". It's because of the "anonymity" of the avatar I think - the human typist behind one forgets there's a human behind the other. 6 years or so ago I would have said it's typical "teen" behaviour but sadly it seems to be becoming more of an adult thing too

 

[Aki]

without the need for Breaking TOS and pasting chat logs.

Depending on the situation, it would be ethically inadvisable, but pasting chatlogs to non-Linden properties is not a TOS -breaking offense.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

And I say the same to the other mind-readers on this thread. You don't know me, and you have no idea why I said what I said. The arrogance is staggering. It's one thing to think what you want to think, but something quite else entirely to believe that you have the capability to know another person's mind and motivations, and another whole level to then express that to other people. You are being more abusive to me with your supposed mindreading, than you are claiming that I was to them. But you think it is ok, because it is you doing it, and you don't use swear-words.

Um...you came here pointing fingers and expecting us to just unilaterally believe you while you told us what other people's mind and motivations were. You really can't have it both ways...we believe that you know their's while you point out we don't know your's.

Your logic is flawed too. At least five people on this very thread have said that my question (Can I name the land Fuck-Off & Die?) was a rude insult directed at the landlord's agent, and I rebutted that by saying, "Anybody who knows me ......." That is pretty concrete and straight-forward.

Soooo...people shouldn't assume they know your mind and motivations but people who DON'T know you should also somehow know the same things about you that people who know you know about you?

It's too fucking early for this contradictory, confusing crap. I should have waited until after my 2nd cup of coffee to read it .

 

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

My quotes below are a collection of sentances from your few posts that touch on various themes, so please endure how they jump around Kimba. I am going to be quite a bit critical of you.

You continue to mischaracterize my follow-up question...
I was not insulting you...
And I say the same to the other mind-readers on this thread. You don't know me, and you have no idea why I said what I said. The arrogance is staggering.
Your logic is flawed too. At least five people on this very thread have said that my question (Can I name the land Fuck-Off & Die?) was a rude insult directed at the landlord's agent, and I rebutted that by saying, "Anybody who knows me ......." That is pretty concrete and straight-forward.

You cannot define how a question is perceived: How you say it in your head can be vastly different than how you intended it to come out. Given how you're already offended by the request of the estate management and quite literally on the attack in defending your build, how you presented what you said is easily perceived as abusive. I'm not alone in saying this, most people in this thread agree. When I asked you what clause you broke, I was hoping for a shitty estate doing shitty things. Instead you admit to dishing out a petty hypothetical question because you weren't getting your way.

"Anybody who knows me ......." is NOT a valid excuse for your behavior. As you've said, we don't know you. The only thing we know is how you present your interactions here and with other people. You cannot EXCPECT to treat everyone as your close friends who "know you". Everyone has a base line on interacting with strangers. Early interactions is what makes you a good person, or an asshole in their eyes. And for a lot of readers here, you're heading towards the latter.

You are a mind-reader?

You bring up this question a lot. It worries me because it makes me think that you're a little paranoid, and generally don't trust people. Nobody is trying to read your mind, because no one can. And so it touches back on how no one can define how a question is perceived. It seems to me that a reoccurring problem is that no one quite understands you, outside of those who "know you". I think instead of making excuses, it would be far more helpful to rephrase what you meant when people let you know that what you said is offensive, rude, or abusive.

When dealing with anything important in Second Life such as content creation or customer service, you need to treat them as if you would in real life. There's no point in hiding behind a Second Life persona, because the people providing products or services in any significant capacity -- are treating it like Real Life because that's what it is for them. We really don't have time for that sort of interaction, and the BS detector is typically very sensitive for anyone who has been in SL a long time. And if you're not hiding behind a persona, you genuinely need to take a step back and try to see things from other peoples perspectives.

But to me I am an activist who stands up to bullies...
Now, you have put me in the position where I have to be an activist, standing up to bullies, and I am not ashamed that is how I operate.

I'm going to stop you right there, because you're not an activist. Claiming to be an activist, trying to rally people behind your cause, and standing up for something where you were in the wrong is mob mentality, not activism. The change you're asking for is not within your rights to assert. Before I asked my question about what clause you broke, you were already well on your way to trying to stir things up against them. Here's a rundown of the situation as compiled by all sides thus far:

1. You wanted to have a build that was club-like, even though you've chosen land on a residential estate where clubs aren't allowed.
2. Estate management or it's residents saw that you had a club, and asked you to make changes.
3. Instead of complying with the EM and the covenant you agreed to, you presented the hypothetical of "What if I changed my land name to Fuck Off and Die?" (This is where you fucked up)
4. You got your shit returned, and you got estate banned.
5. You came to this forum to make your complaints heard, and told people to buy their MP listing and leave bad reviews.
6. The folks here at this forum are generally smart, and don't really buy into these types of complaints; so we ask questions.
7. You then tell us exactly how you did some questionable things as a tenant.
8. We call you out on it, the estate manager shows up, you get hyper defensive.
9. Suddently you're an "EsTaTe JuStIcE wArRiOr".
10. Flounce.

In my eyes, and probably a lot of other readers here: You're the bully.

BTW: How do you know what Katya and Acid did or did not say to me? You can't know, you know you can't know, and we all know you can't know...
I don't doubt that they talk to each other, I doubt that they tell the truth...

I 100% assure you that estate management talks with each other. There's no point in telling lies to each other, because that's counter-intuitive to the business. I personally keep a spreadsheet of significant negative incidents to help me remember things that happened years ago. Fortunately, it only has about 3 new entries in the past 2 years. Shit is pretty mellow in my junk heap.

I hope that was helpful to your understanding of this complicated situation. But, if you want something else complicated to ponder, how about this: The rule is against abuse. You say rude. Does rude constitute abuse? Even if I had meant it the way some think, it's not really abuse.

Abuse is abuse even if you think being rude isn't. Harking back again to how you don't get to define how a question is perceived: the opinion that matters most on how things are perceived, is the one who holds the keys to the estate. I've done my fair share of 1st life and 2nd life customer service all my life. Good customer service goes both ways. You can't BE a shitty customer and still feel ENTITLED to good customer service. In that same vein a business knows when they're in the wrong and will work to correct it. That concept generally goes both ways. If a customer is wrong they tend to apologize for the misunderstanding, and you know sometimes they get more help out of it.

But, based on your interactions here, I feel like -- right now -- you're the type of person who has problems admitting that you're wrong. You don't have to be sorry, or feel bad about being wrong. I think it's something you could work on in addition to your communication skills. I myself had made pretty big mistakes in the past, but I work to learn from them and try to make things better for those impacted. No one expects you to change overnight, but take some time to reflect about this thread instead of being angry about the situation. What could you have done differently to avoid this entire situation?

 

[WolfEyes]

This inspires me. We need a Disco Ball button.

I'd settle for a cookie one. Chocolate chip, please.

 

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

It's a growing "thing" in SL to treat & talk to folks in ways they wouldn't do it in "Real Life"

Oh, it's not a growing theory. It's practically a core law of the internet at this point.

 

[Kimba]

Clearly you've missed the point. You know it's rude. Whether people who 'know' you would give it a pass is immaterial.

Let's put it this way: It's a shitty thing to tell people to 'Fuck off and Die'.

I am not missing anything. I agree with you that it is not a good thing to tell somebody to tell fuck off and die. But let's use your own example of the cop, to better understand this. Suppose that I am pulled over by a cop who is standing at my driver's-side window. A Neo-Nazi in full regalia walks down the sidewalk, and I yell at him, through the passenger-side window, to fuck off and die, and the cop thinks I am talking to him.

I inferred that a neighbor had complained. Probably the one who I made stop her birdsongs from leaking onto my land, and who had complained that I was running around the border naked. My only thought was, "She doesn't like this name, so I will use a name she hates even more." So I inquired if I could name the land fuck-off and die, to annoy the complaining-neighbor. It never even occurred to me that real-estate agent would think I was telling her to fuck-off and die.

All I am saying is that people who actually know me would probably agree that fuck-die was directed at the complaining-neighbor, not the real-estate agent.