Coronavirus Updates

[Kara Spengler]

Earlier in the month when the government was asked why are we not isolating one of the UK government advisers said that people will get bored and start to break the isolation if they are asked to isolate too soon and for too long.

That is strange. Early on I thought their plan was herd immunity.

 

[Kara Spengler]

New Zealand goes straight to it: immediate lockdown.
New Zealand isn't just flattening the curve. It's squashing it.

Meanwhile, in Sweden....
Coronavirus? Pandemic? For many in Sweden, life goes on as usual.

A vid I was watching this morning said they have more than the us now when you adjust for population.

 

[Kara Spengler]

It just occured to me that home made masks will actually spread the virus. Sounds like a funny and stupid conspiracy idea at first, right? Well let me tell you why I think it will:

Masks imply protection, people will consider themselves and others protected. Guess what? They are not! So instead of sneezing or coughing into the ellbow, they will happily do so into the silly homemade filter placebo. Nothing wrong with that in their eyes, they are covered, right? Well bugger, no, they are not much shielding their surroundings from their exhaled particles, a bit maybe, but less so than if they had sneezed into their ellbows.

The recommendation specifically says they are not a replacement for social distancing and such. When people talk droplets naturally come out and this reduces that.

 

[Sovereignty]

I would like to get tested for COVID, but I don't meet the criteria. I haven't run enough of a fever.

Odd phrasing on the local screening checklist:

Who should be tested for COVID-19?
(list would include me if I ran a fever)

Who does not need to be tested for COVID-19?
" People without symptoms related to coronavirus disease."

The second category is a bit circular.

[Edited after accidentally hitting the tab key caused the text to post. So it seems.]

 

[Kara Spengler]

I swear, you're right. I noticed this morning on my weekly grocery run, when almost everyone had a mask, people were much bolder about violating my 6-foot/2-meter space than last week when almost no one was masked.

Weekly grocery run? *shudder* I am already dreading going to our mail room this week.

 

[Casey Pelous]

Unless I'm mistaken -- and I'm not now nor have I ever been a virologist -- the present COVID-19 test detects the virus, rather than testing for antibodies.

I hope someone's working on one that detects the antibodies -- then we could start working out who's immune, what percentage of the population is immune, how long immunity lasts, and all that useful stuff.

If this thing stays asymptomatic in a lot of people, we may have a higher percentage of immunes than one would assume from the case numbers.

 

[Sovereignty]

Unless I'm mistaken -- and I'm not now nor have I ever been a virologist -- the present COVID-19 test detects the virus, rather than testing for antibodies.

I hope someone's working on one that detects the antibodies -- then we could start working out who's immune, what percentage of the population is immune, how long immunity lasts, and all that useful stuff.

If this thing stays asymptomatic in a lot of people, we may have a higher percentage of immunes than one would assume from the case numbers.

Yep. There are antibody tests out there. Some maybe not so good. Today Cuomo mentioned New York state is working on getting one they can use. Seems quite disorganized.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

We need to be clear on one point: what drives Trump is not what drives good doctors. Unlike Trump, I expect doctors involved in treating CV19 patients to make their own decisions based on the evidence, not on what an obvious idiot like Trump says. Because of the crisis, research results are being released prior to publication before going through peer review. That does create hazards especially when bloviates like Trump get involved--or amateur doctors like journalists.

Medical interest in hydroxychloroquine predates the French studies--not mentioned in the Guardian piece. China was using it on their COVID patients to some extent in January. South Korea was using it after that. The first MedCram video mentioning chloroquine was back on Feb. 5 well before the release of the first French study in prepublication form. The guy making the MedCram videos, Dr. Roger Seuhultm is a pulmonologist, intensivist who at the time knew he would be treating COVID patients. In his videos (there are multiple videos where he discusses the drug) he identifies two mechanisms by which the drug might help. It might interfere with virus replication itself or it might act as an ionophore allowing zinc ions to enter cells where the zinc could interfere with viral replication. He expressly stated in the first video that trials were needed to see if the stuff actually works pointing out that anecdotal evidence could just be coincidence.

Emphasis: Seuhult was talking about the drug in a youtube video on Feb. 5, and Seuhult is only one doctor among many who were aware of the drug's potential application.

Meanwhile, there are the great unwashed masses of doctors who have no expertise related to treating COVID patients who woke up one day, heard news of Trump's bloviations, checked it out with a quick literature search (I guess) and started hoarding it. My father taught biochemistry to a lot of future doctors back when, and in general did not have that [high] of an high opinion of them. He said you do not have to [be] intelligent, just have a good memory. Driving down the road with him, he would sometimes point to some doctor's office with a name on it and say, "Don't go to him if you can possibly help it." Apparently, a lot of them are selfish, too, not just incompetent.

To put the Guardian piece in perspecive, interest in hydroxychloroquine was pretty high prior to the French studies. (The Guardian does not mention the second one.) Along came Trump spewing shit everywhere. People get all excited about Trump (soap opera) and ignore the underlying interest in the drug among the doctors who would prescribe it (irrespective of what Trump says). Everyday people start saying wildly misleading things about the drug, such as being handed out like candy.

Meanwhile, the FDA is taking hydroxychloroquine seriously and is testing it presumably in double-blind studies , and Dr. Roger Seuhult got his first COVID ICU patients only last week.

I think the point of The Guardian article wasn't to discuss the merits or otherwise of chloroquine as a therapy for Covid-19 or anything else.

It was, rather, to provide a detailed analysis of how a single, obscure, and potentially very misleading piece of research came to the attention of Fox News and thence to the notice of the Very Stable Genius in Chief himself.

As to the factual question of whether any particular drug is efficacious or not, I have absolutely no idea or interest whatsoever -- that's what, in the UK, NICE are for.

I have no idea whose YouTube channels they follow, if any, but the online evidence searches and similar research they conduct are generally pretty through.

 

[Sovereignty]

I think the point of The Guardian article wasn't to discuss the merits or otherwise of chloroquine as a therapy for Covid-19 or anything else.

It was, rather, to provide a detailed analysis of how a single, obscure, and potentially very misleading piece of research came to the attention of Fox News and thence to the notice of the Very Stable Genius in Chief himself.

As to the factual question of whether any particular drug is efficacious or not, I have absolutely no idea or interest whatsoever -- that's what, in the UK, NICE are for.

I have no idea whose YouTube channels they follow, if any, but the online evidence searches and similar research they conduct are generally pretty through.

They do not mention the general interest in hydroxychloroquine within the community of people treating COVID19. That leaves the impression tothe unwary that talk of that drug is all bunk. That does a disservice.

 

[Anya Ristow]

I'm thinking of getting something like this:

Need ray gun.

 

[Sovereignty]

If we just follow the soap opera, we miss the whole picture.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

They do not mention the general interest in hydroxychloroquine within the community of people treating COVID19. That leaves the impression tothe unwary that talk of that drug is all bunk. That does a disservice.

Doesn't really matter, that I can see, what impression people like me form about hydroxychloroquine or anything else.

If the community of people treating COVID19, or any members of it, publish some research that, in the UK, NICE and the Scientific Advisory Group advising the British government find useful, then doubtless the authorities and government medical officers will act upon the recommendations of those bodies.

 

[Sovereignty]

Doesn't really matter, that I can see, what impression people like me form about hydroxychloroquine or anything else.

If the community of people treating COVID19, or any members of it, publish some research that, in the UK, NICE and the Scientific Advisory Group advising the British government find useful, then doubtless the authorities and government medical officers will act upon the recommendations of those bodies.

Which is what I led with in so many words. I just ask for more from the journalists covering the mess. I provided factual information they omitted, more than needed but I wanted to press the point.

I am more interested in the fixation on soap opera issues at large. For instance, MSNBC's website had almost nothing on COVID19 up until the day the NBA and NCAA canceled their events. Their coverage until then was all about the election which at that time was at least no more important than the pandemic. I was quite frustrated seeing what to me was an abdication of responsibility.

What I say here makes no difference, of course. It is just to vent.

 

[Sovereignty]

Abdicates.

 

[Pamela]

Which is what I led with in so many words. I just ask for more from the journalists covering the mess. I provided factual information they omitted, more than needed but I wanted to press the point.

I am more interested in the fixation on soap opera issues at large. For instance, MSNBC's website had almost nothing on COVID19 up until the day the NBA and NCAA canceled their events. Their coverage until then was all about the election which at that time was at least no more important than the pandemic. I was quite frustrated seeing what to me was an abdication of responsibility.

What I say here makes no difference, of course. It is just to vent.

Here is data about MSNBC, CNN, AND FOX watchers, and the information they presumably gleaned from watching their news source of choice.

It is peculiar that of the three you choose to be critical of MSNBC rather than the other two, who seem to be doing on the whole either a crap or very crap job of it. MSNBC, which I follow very closely, followed the story early and in enough detail so that I was isolating by mid Feb.

. Cable TV and Coronavirus: How Americans perceive the outbreak and view media coverage differ by main news source

 

[Isabeau]

Israel health minister, who claims coronavirus is ‘divine punishment’ for homosexuality, tests positive for COVID-19

 

[Kara Spengler]

I'm thinking of getting something like this:

Going naked?

 

[Kara Spengler]

Unless I'm mistaken -- and I'm not now nor have I ever been a virologist -- the present COVID-19 test detects the virus, rather than testing for antibodies.

I hope someone's working on one that detects the antibodies -- then we could start working out who's immune, what percentage of the population is immune, how long immunity lasts, and all that useful stuff.

If this thing stays asymptomatic in a lot of people, we may have a higher percentage of immunes than one would assume from the case numbers.

I suspect a lot of ppl have the antibodies that never knew they had covid19. Either they were asytomatic or it was mild and they thought it was the flu.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Israel health minister, who claims coronavirus is ‘divine punishment’ for homosexuality, tests positive for COVID-19

I love this sort of irony.

 

[Kara Spengler]

I wonder what the first reaction was in Finland when they announced social distancing. Tell the typical Finn they have to be 2 metres apart and the response might be "do I have to get that close".