How to Hire a Coder?

[Blinkingintime]

I am trying to find a coder for a game I want to develop in world, one who can also continue to develop long-term and maintain servers associated with the game. Based on my own experiences in SL, I know there are some fantastic coders out there, but so far all efforts to find one have failed. I met someone the other day who has a great game all ready to go but said she had to give up the idea because she couldn't find anyone to handle the back end. Alarming! Especially with all the talent evident in world. Any advice (or actual prospects) would be very much appreciated.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

Were you prepared to pay RL software developer salaries? I am a scripter in SL and spent a lot of time writing scripts for fun, many of which I published and some became quite popular for a while. I have in the past been approached by people looking for a scripter in-world but paying game-level "wages" for the work. When I quoted RL contracting rates they seemed astonished.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

To Argent's point, there is no reason building a game within SL would be cheaper than building a game or other software outside of it. If you're asking for real work, be prepared to pay real money! I'd think the absolute cheapest you'd be able to hire someone is going to be like 20 real dollars an hour if you're willing to work with some kid who does this stuff for fun. And building a game might be many hours... Experienced coders of course will expect a lot more.

It's sometimes kind of cute what people will expect for 5 real life dollars worth of lindens... I've also shocked people by being willing to pay real money because there are so many free loaders! I think when willing to pay for a service it's often good to mention an offer up front so that people know you're serious and not another free loader.

 

[Essence Lumin]

To Argent's point, there is no reason building a game within SL would be cheaper than building a game or other software outside of it. If you're asking for real work, be prepared to pay real money! I'd think the absolute cheapest you'd be able to hire someone is going to be like 20 real dollars an hour if you're willing to work with some kid who does this stuff for fun. And building a game might be many hours... Experienced coders of course will expect a lot more.

Seriously. My local convenience store has a sign on their door, $16/hour minimum to be a cashier. Try multiplying that by 5 for experienced coders. Maybe.

 

[Soen Eber]

It's not too difficult if you have the time to do it yourself, if all you need the backend for is to perform database lookups and updates, passing data back and forth with the in-world game. Dream Host, Blue Host, any number of providers can spin up a database instance, and you can modify canned PHP scripts for the back end communication. This is assuming you're already comfortable with Second Life scripting.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Most developers who have the experience to build a game are working on their own stuff. What is the appeal of building someone else's project and then being responsible for maintenance? That's a long-term commitment to someone else's vision, for an uncertain return.

 

[Casey Pelous]

I am trying to find a coder for a game I want to develop in world, one who can also continue to develop long-term and maintain servers associated with the game. Based on my own experiences in SL, I know there are some fantastic coders out there, but so far all efforts to find one have failed. I met someone the other day who has a great game all ready to go but said she had to give up the idea because she couldn't find anyone to handle the back end. Alarming! Especially with all the talent evident in world. Any advice (or actual prospects) would be very much appreciated.

There was a time when I was a pretty skilled coder in SL. (It has been so long, now, I can barely make sense out of LSL examples any more.)

I'll be brutally honest with you.

1) I was approached for many "great ideas." Every single one was pitched as needing "just a little coding" and every single one was going to end up far more complex than that. We're talking days or even weeks of work to produce a working, finished, polished product. Often, the "great idea" was either impractical, impossible, or illegal. Communicating one or more of those qualities to the client inevitably involved sturm und drang.

2) Not a single one of those folks with "great ideas" wanted to pay actual, real-time rates for my time, because their idea had no chance of generating the kind of revenue that would make that make sense. They all wanted to pay $L, which would have amounted to pennies per hour for me. Some even offered "great exposure," which is one of the running jokes in most freelance fields. (There are whole websites devoted to laughing at would-be so-called clients who offer "great exposure.") It was so boringly predictable, I wouldn't even listen to pitches anymore.

3) There is no shortage of "great ideas." Why would I work on your project for a single payment in pennies when I can work on my own project for ongoing dollars?

4) You're a client. I'm sure you are, in real life, a perfectly charming person with many admirable qualities. However, when lovely people become clients, they lose their damn minds. Clients are the bane of a freelancer's existence.

 

[Blinkingintime]

Thanks to everyone for responses. It's very helpful to understand the "other side" of the equation. This is something I am taking seriously, more in the vein of a RL business than "just an SL business". That includes understanding that coding is very skilled work and I by no means expect to pay anything less than what it's worth in RL. I am not able to do the work myself. I don't have the knowledge or experience. For this reason, I would expect to pay a considerable amount of real money to someone for doing it. As you say, why would anyone want to do this for someone else for pennies? Not sure how I gave the impression that I wanted it done for cheap but I imagine that's the case with a lot of people in SL who think they have a great idea and someone should be flattered to be able to work with them (haha), so I get it. I assume that when I discuss it with someone who might be interested, we will almost immediately discuss price at which time they will realize that I'm looking for good work at a rate that makes it worthwhile for them and that they are happy with. But I have to find someone(s) to discuss it with, first.

 

[Essence Lumin]

My first piece of advice beyond the money. You are a first time poster here, but beyond that "I need a coder for a game"? You need to describe your concept of your game in some detail. In enough detail, that if it grabs someone's interest might be able to help you.

 

[Casey Pelous]

...Not sure how I gave the impression that I wanted it done for cheap ...

You didn't. Your predecessors handled that!

Good luck with your project! You have some extraordinarily knowledgeable people helping you in this thread, and I'm sure they all wish you that same good fortune.

I guess the bit of wisdom I'd want to impart to you is that programming is sort of like racecars. With racecars, they say the last 1 mph of speed is what costs most of the money. (As someone who has written the checks for a family racing "business", I can confirm.) In programming, it's the move from "thing that is a working model" to "thing that is bulletproof (and idiot-proof) in almost all circumstances."

Please come back and let us know how it turns out.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

...Not sure how I gave the impression that I wanted it done for cheap...

you didn't, but this feeds into my point about mentioning payment upfront, since there are SOOOOOO many freeloaders. If you don't mention payment upfront, people will dismiss you as another freeloader without reading your idea.

 

[Blinkingintime]

I understand the reticence. I have some, too. I've been in SL for quite a while and have been burned, and most people I know have been, also. A lot of people are happy to waste your time, jump into things on a whim only to change their minds and flit off to something else in a few weeks, or appropriate other peoples' work in various ways without compunction. Fortunately, there are also great people who are creative, honest and talented. We've probably all had our time wasted by ghosty SL people.

Speaking of time, I won't take more of yours beyond this post. I'm grateful for the advice. Nobody owed me any but you've been generous.
It's tricky to lay out the idea in detail in a public place, for obvious reasons, but it's safe to say there are two activities in SL that have been/are being done that are very popular, and I've engaged in both extensively. I would like to combine them for a slightly different, enhanced (I believe) experience. There are products involved and I have found a source for these that are quite a bit better than existing ones, in multiple ways. The number of products involved would increase over time.

It would require extensive coding, not "just a little". It would require connecting to a server on a website. Not having enough knowledge or experience to do this myself, I need to find someone who can and will tell me "Well, that's crazy because X isn't possible in the way you're describing it but it can work this other way". It is a collaborative effort in that way, not a job that demands X, Y and X according to my arbitrary specifications. In RL, I have a for-profit and a non-profit, but in SL I have only engaged in amateur endeavors purely for fun and creativity. I have filed another RL business for this project.

As stated, I am prepared to pay reasonable (RL) rates for the work, not a percentage of the totally uncertain future profits. Who knows? There may be little to none. I'm willing to take the financial risk but I don't expect anyone else to take it with me.

So to Goblin, Casey, Essence, Beebo, Argent, and Soen, thank you very much for helping a stranger who came bumbling in out of nowhere. I appreciate it. If anyone you know is interested in talking to me about this in detail, please ask them to contact me (Elsliegh Greenwood in world). It will take five minutes for me to explain the concept and if it's of no interest to them, they haven't wasted too much time and they can be on their merry way. I will let you know how it turns out. Cheers!

 

[Soen Eber]

If I remember right, the wiki and/or lsl portal sites have multiple canned scripts that can be used to connect a server to an lsl script, including PHP scripts to house on the server. At LSL Portal, under LSL Features by Category, the Communications section, the HTTP and XML-RPC links. That should be a starting point for whoever you take on for this.

Good Luck!

 

[Blinkingintime]

If I remember right, the wiki and/or lsl portal sites have multiple canned scripts that can be used to connect a server to an lsl script, including PHP scripts to house on the server. At LSL Portal, under LSL Features by Category, the Communications section, the HTTP and XML-RPC links. That should be a starting point for whoever you take on for this.

Good Luck!

Thank you!

 

[nebula]

I own servers and sell web hosting. You need a place to park your game and have some databases, I can do that. You can pay me a very modest fee for hosting based on your bandwidth needs or cut me in for a % which would involve me listening to your business plan or looking over current earnings.

 

[nebula]

I have a history of successful products

 

[Essence Lumin]

I own servers and sell web hosting. You need a place to park your game and have some databases, I can do that. You can pay me a very modest fee for hosting based on your bandwidth needs or cut me in for a % which would involve me listening to your business plan or looking over current earnings.

Really? He doesn't have anything functional. There are about a zillion places that will sell server space and web hosting. My personal favorite is nearlyfreespeech.net which costs one or two dollars a month for my very non demanding needs.

 

[nebula]

Really? He doesn't have anything functional. There are about a zillion places that will sell server space and web hosting. My personal favorite is nearlyfreespeech.net which costs one or two dollars a month for my very non demanding needs.

I can listen to a pitch, build a backend, whatever. I also have extensive lsl experience and 3 games published on steam. If I like the idea I am down, if I think it is generic or doodoo I am out. Also I like money so you would have to be willing to pay a premium for me or give me a large percent of earnings.

 

[Beebo Brink]

...there are two activities in SL that have been/are being done that are very popular, and I've engaged in both extensively. I would like to combine them for a slightly different, enhanced (I believe) experience.

OMG! Breedable dildoes!! Why didn't I think of that.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

OMG! Breedable dildoes!! Why didn't I think of that.

It feels derogatory to call men that!