Vote Blue No Matter Who?

Are you planning to vote blue in the general no matter who? Or only if you approve of the candidate?

  • No matter who.

    Votes: 44 78.6%
  • If I approve of the candidate.

    Votes: 11 19.6%
  • Undecided.

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • Total voters
    56

NyteWytch

What's good, Miley?
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The democratic party does not represent me, and they probably don't represent any of you, either. They represent their investors. I'm changing my registration to republican
Fucking LOL!


Wait...so republicans represent you and not investors right?


Hahahahahahhahahaahahhahahahah



Why do you even hang here or discord...the alt right is much more your style.
 

Innula Zenovka

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As to these $1000 or $2000 cheques that are shortly to be mailed out, I'm wondering if that's going to be anything like enough, even in the short term.

Didn't we have a discussion not so long ago here (or maybe SLU, but I think it was more recent) about some survey that suggested an alarming percentage of Americans, whatever their income, would struggle to pay an unexpected bill for some comparatively small amount -- a couple of hundred dollars or so?

That was based on the assumption that the respondents would be working at the time this unexpected bill arrived, of course.

For many people, the effect on their income of the emergency is going to be far greater than any unexpected bills, so I doubt this measure, welcome and necessary though obviously it is, will bring anything more than a very brief respite for hard-pressed people on low incomes.
 

Brenda Archer

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As to these $1000 or $2000 cheques that are shortly to be mailed out, I'm wondering if that's going to be anything like enough, even in the short term.

Didn't we have a discussion not so long ago here (or maybe SLU, but I think it was more recent) about some survey that suggested an alarming percentage of Americans, whatever their income, would struggle to pay an unexpected bill for some comparatively small amount -- a couple of hundred dollars or so?

That was based on the assumption that the respondents would be working at the time this unexpected bill arrived, of course.

For many people, the effect on their income of the emergency is going to be far greater than any unexpected bills, so I doubt this measure, welcome and necessary though obviously it is, will bring anything more than a very brief respite for hard-pressed people on low incomes.
Exactly. It’s going to be treated by the base as a Christmas present while it’s not enough for many.

For those of us on means tested programs, it might even cause us problems. I can’t afford to be pushed over the Medicaid income limit.
 

bubblesort

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I doubt this measure, welcome and necessary though obviously it is, will bring anything more than a very brief respite for hard-pressed people on low incomes.
Exactly. This bill is a good start, but more needs to be done. It's the easiest question in the world... should people be evicted, thrown off their health insurance plans, become homeless, and starve because they follow government recommendations to social distance to help flatten the curve? It's unthinkable to me that she would oppose this, or waste resources putting limits on it, or even waste time tying it up in committee. That's just pure evil.

It's not just the presidency, and it's not just me being cranky. if they continue down this line, and try to block more social programs, the democratic party will be finished, all the way down the ticket. The republicans know what happens after an epidemic like this. They know how mideval feudalism fell after the black plague. That's why they are suddenly in favor of a plan like this after opposing social programs for so long. People forget that republicans represent constituents from some of the poorest regions in the country.

I'm just glad this is happening during an election year, so people can easily vote out the bastards and rent seekers who make this pandemic worse. This election will turn on who does the most to help people during the pandemic. Nothing else matters. Entire political machines will rise and fall based on this.
 

Jolene Benoir

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Agreed. This is no time for protest votes.

After seeing Pelosi oppose universal cash payments in response to corona, while friends are suffering, I'm out. It's not a protest. The democratic party does not represent me, and they probably don't represent any of you, either. They represent their investors. I'm changing my registration to republican after I vote for Bernie. Bernie will be the only democrat I vote for in the current cycle. He may be the last democrat I ever vote for.
If you want to join the party that openly welcomes nazis and a not insignificant proportion believe you to be an abomination, do so by all means. Spare us the notion that you care about economic justice or any kind for that matter, let alone equality. It's probably for the best that pretenders such as yourself don't remain with the sole purpose of subterfuge anyhow.

Good riddance.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Exactly. This bill is a good start, but more needs to be done. It's the easiest question in the world... should people be evicted, thrown off their health insurance plans, become homeless, and starve because they follow government recommendations to social distance to help flatten the curve? It's unthinkable to me that she would oppose this, or waste resources putting limits on it, or even waste time tying it up in committee. That's just pure evil.
What specific "this," though, do you say Nancy Pelosi is opposing?

The Common Dreams article to which you linked tells me that
Separately, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) supports a more targeted approach to those hit hardest by any economic downturn, as opposed to money sent to every American, and Pelosi wants this done via refundable tax credits, expanded unemployment, and possibly direct cash payments as well.

To my mind, simply sending out cheques for a couple of thousand dollars every now and again is no more that a stopgap, and needs to be part of a far larger -- and necessarily targeted -- programme of financial support.

People who've lost their jobs as a result of the pandemic and social-distancing measures clearly need more, and more urgent, financial support than do people who are able to work from home, or who are working in sectors that aren't affected -- supermarket and healthcare workers, for example, aren't going to need the same level of financial support as will people who work in the restaurant and hospitality sector or clothes and shoe-shops.

Similarly, people who are self-employed are going to need different help from people on wages and salaries -- the coffee-shop owner who has to close is in a very different position from her employees, since she's not only lost her income from the coffee shop but also probably has to worry about rent on the premises and business loans, and she's in a different position from a self-employed trucker who is making food deliveries.

People on a single income who can't work, because of illness or social distancing, will need more assistance than people in a similar position who are part of a household where other members are still able to work; people who rent will probably need assistance that differs from that needed by people who are repaying mortgages, who own their property outright, or who are living with family members; people who have to care for children or vulnerable adult family members will need more assistance than people who don't have such responsibilities, and so on.

Sending out individual cheques is all well and good, but to my mind it has to be part of a much larger, continuing, package of direct financial support to people in need, and that support has to be targeted, or so it seems to me.
 

bubblesort

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To my mind, simply sending out cheques for a couple of thousand dollars every now and again is no more that a stopgap, and needs to be part of a far larger -- and necessarily targeted -- programme of financial support.
I disagree. Targeting adds layers of bureaucracy that isn't needed right now. The infected numbers are doubling faster all the time. If somebody doesn't need that 1k right now, they eventually will, and it doesn't matter if it's a 1%er or a minimum wage shelf stocker at the grocery store. Most people making over 100k a year have expensive life styles, so they are hurting too, especially when we have to shut down their companies. I'm not saying we need to reimburse them for all their losses, I'm saying they need aid to stay above water for a few months, same as the rest of us. We are all human.

So we don't need to give people aid based on who they are. We need to give aid based on who we are. We don't have time for this stupid haggling over who gets what, and which congressman's stock portfolio will gain and lose as a result.

Beyond sending out 1k right now, we need to stop all evictions and utility shut offs until this is over. Also, free corona testing is not good enough. We need the government to step in and cover corona treatments, as well.

If Pelosi can't even get behind the 1k without being an idiot and betraying her constituents, then she's not going to be doing us any good on those other fronts, either. I have no use for her or any part of her machine. I'm done with the party.
 

bubblesort

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Issues aside... a friend just linked me to this article. Apparently, #DemExit is a trending hash tag now? News to me, but whatever. I'll jump on that bandwagon, LOL

 

Casey Pelous

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So nothing else in the bill mattered? Unemployment for contractors? Food aid? Increased testing without copays? Nothing in there helps? Republicans are resisting all of those measures.
Those same Republicans Bubba Bubblesort is "about to join?" Wow.

It's almost like they're different from Democrats.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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If Pelosi can't even get behind the 1k without being an idiot and betraying her constituents, then she's not going to be doing us any good on those other fronts, either. I have no use for her or any part of her machine. I'm done with the party.
Your reasoning seems to be that because Democrats aren't helping enough, so you are okay with voting for a party that wants to help much less to punish them. It's kind of like saying you don't like where your friends want to eat, so you'd rather just eat a piece of dog shit you found. It's very backwards reasoning. It's not that your critiscisms of Pelosi lack merit, it's that Mitch Mcconnell is so much worse according to your own views and arguments.
 
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Brenda Archer

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All these DemExit assholes were looking for an excuse to go Republican all along. I have no idea why they pretended to be anything else except out of ignorance, or social pressure in certain strata of society. Or they were conscious lying spoilers.

But they were never sincerely Center or Left. Thoughtfully arriving at genuine liberal, social democratic or socialist positions, separately from personalities and propagandists, would make supporting the current Republican Party simply impossible.

One could of course locally support progressive causes and new parties, but that’s too much work. It’s exposing yourself to the disapproval of your conservative peers to be an activist yourself.

Ignorant and poorly educated people might blow around like so much tumbleweed because of daily propaganda. The kind of people talking about DemExit are generally literate and have no such excuse. No. They’ve always wanted to be Republicans. It’s a better fit for their economic status and their actual politics.
 

Soen Eber

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Heard this morning on npr the checks probably won't be going out the poorest, as they are based on taxes. If you don't pay taxes or a significant amount is refunded to you, then you won'r be getting a check. I was still waking up at the time and it may change significantly on further research, but ...

Also make sure to file for unemployment. You might get locked out for the days or weeks acrued before your application date so leaving it for Monday might lose a week's worth of money.
 
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Brenda Archer

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Heard this morning on npr the checks probably won't be going out the poorest, as they are based on taxes. If you don't pay taxes or a significant is refunded to you, then you won'r be getting a check. I was still waking up at the time and it may change significantly on further research, but ...

Also make sure to file for unemployment. You might get locked out for the days or weeks acrued before your application date so leaving it for Monday might lose a week's worth of money.
It figures the poorest will be ignored. Of course.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I disagree. Targeting adds layers of bureaucracy that isn't needed right now. The infected numbers are doubling faster all the time. If somebody doesn't need that 1k right now, they eventually will, and it doesn't matter if it's a 1%er or a minimum wage shelf stocker at the grocery store. Most people making over 100k a year have expensive life styles, so they are hurting too, especially when we have to shut down their companies. I'm not saying we need to reimburse them for all their losses, I'm saying they need aid to stay above water for a few months, same as the rest of us. We are all human.

So we don't need to give people aid based on who they are. We need to give aid based on who we are. We don't have time for this stupid haggling over who gets what, and which congressman's stock portfolio will gain and lose as a result.

Beyond sending out 1k right now, we need to stop all evictions and utility shut offs until this is over. Also, free corona testing is not good enough. We need the government to step in and cover corona treatments, as well.

If Pelosi can't even get behind the 1k without being an idiot and betraying her constituents, then she's not going to be doing us any good on those other fronts, either. I have no use for her or any part of her machine. I'm done with the party.
Personally, I think it's preferable to give aid to people based on what they need and on what we can afford.

So while I'm sure that "Most people making over 100k a year have expensive lifestyles," as you put it, they nevertheless have more scope for making economies while this crisis reduces their income than do people making minimum wage, or not working at all, and it's the latter group I'm more concerned about because they're the ones who need most help and protection.

Similarly, someone who is responsible for the care of young children will need more support than people who, like me, bear no such financial burden, and people struggling to pay rent need more assistance than people who, again like me, own their own homes.

I entirely agree about stopping evictions during the pandemic and stopping utility shut-offs, and you'll get no argument from me about the need for a national health service, free at the point of delivery, based on clinical need and nothing else, but those are separate issues from the matter of immediate financial assistance, which I think has to be targeted to be most effective.
 
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Me too. It's sad and pathetic though. I've seen dozens of articles today and not seen one response from Biden, or democrats in the house or senate about all this. They should be speaking out and making their voices heard.
 
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Salome

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1. Biden *just* did a press meeting yesterday explaining that he’s been working with medical experts and legislators to (a) see what he could do to help with relief efforts and (b) try and coordinate what options are available for regular briefings. Without official access to the resources and data of our struggling institutions, it is very important to be sure any information released to the public has authority and is safe and accurate. Most important, qualified people are pretty fucking busy right now, and anyone working under the current administration — those that are qualified — could face blowback for communicating outside official channels. If you’re expecting a presidential briefing from Biden when he doesn’t have access to the information and resources of the president, you need to come down to reality. We are also in a critical point in time where it is far more dangerous to release incorrect information than to say nothing.

2. Pelosi and other active legislators are in the middle of negotiations trying to get relief passed. Bills don’t appear out of thin air — they have to be written and they have to be written with an eye to getting them passed. And while all that is going on, public statements have to be measured because making a public statement that tanks your legislation in order to score cheap political points isn’t how shit gets done and it’s never been Pelosi’s MO. If we had both houses, we’d have passed Waters’ Bill ages ago. But we don’t. Republicans exist.

3. No. Passing whatever the GOP wants because we’re in an emergency situation isn’t okay. 9/11 taught us that kind of thinking fucks us for decades. We all wish Republicans didn‘t exploit times of national tragedy to fuck us, but that’s the reality we live in.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people don’t understand the realities of the world or how eager they are to blame Dems for the GOP’s opportunism and failures.
 

Pamela

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Me too. It's sad and pathetic though. I've seen dozens of articles today and not seen one response from Biden, or democrats in the house or senate about all this. They should be speaking out and making their voices heard.
he will start regular briefings Monday.