Trump's Pardons

detrius

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One thing that occurred to me is that he could have signed pardons for himself and his kids and kept them secret, so he can just pull them out of his pocket when he needs one. Would that be valid?
This isn't Monopoly.
 

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Yeah, unlike the U.S. Constitution, the rules for Monopoly have undergone many upgrades to eliminate exploits.
Are you the thimble?
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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#EngineeringFail
Well at the time this constitution was written there were not many others around which could be used for inspiration, right? Nowadays it's completely different, there are tons of democratic constitutions around, but back then not.

So yes, compared to modern standards this constitution of course shows its age and has its own quirks.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Well at the time this constitution was written there were not many others around which could be used for inspiration, right? Nowadays it's completely different, there are tons of democratic constitutions around, but back then not.

So yes, compared to modern standards this constitution of course shows its age and has its own quirks.
The US Constitution was quite remarkable for its day, when compared with the other models of government the authors of that document were familiar back in England or elsewhere in Europe.

But when you compare, on the one hand, the way England was governed then with the way the UK is governed now, or the way all other European states are now governed with the way they were back in the late 1700s, and, on the other, the way the US Constitution has changed over the same period, and the contrast is really quite remarkable.

Germany, in contrast, has one of the western world's most recent constitutions, which was drawn up by experts with the benefit of 160-odd years of seeing what worked and what didn't about the US Constitution.

I mean, if the citizens of any of the world's remaining constitutional monarchies, including the British monarchy, were to decide to replace it with a republican system of government, which would they choose as a model, the Constitution of the US or the German Basic Law?
 

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Ouroboros comes to mind as a descriptive image for this, but not sure that's deep down the well enough.

Is there something from mythology about a snake eating its own tail as its eating its own head as its eating its own tail as its grifting everyone?
 

Innula Zenovka

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One thing that occurred to me is that he could have signed pardons for himself and his kids and kept them secret, so he can just pull them out of his pocket when he needs one. Would that be valid?
I really can't see how that would work.

I mean, one of the main arguments against Trump pardoning himself or his children was that the pardons would have to specify the general area and timescale of the offences they pardoning, and can't cover criminal behaviour after the pardon date, obviously, so that would tell prosecutors where to start looking for things they can prosecute, and would also mean that Trump's entire record would be scrutinised for prosecution, including his time in the White House, because a self-pardon would be the same as saying "please take my history apart and throw the book at me" to the Justice Department, because of course they'd challenge its validity.

Is the Supreme Court going to let a self-pardon stand? How well did stacking it play out for him when he tried to get them to overturn the election?

That's not a risk he's going to take, I think. Not if someone has explained it to him, and someone must have done -- if even someone like me can see some obvious flaws in that strategy, others can see them far more readily and far earlier than have I.

It's a gamble between leaving without a pardon, and hoping that they don't ever prosecute him, or leaving with a pardon and the certainty that they'll come after him with absolute ferocity, and an outraged public behind them, and that at then end of it all, after all his dirty washing has been displayed in public, the mere -- and to my mind, unlikely -- possibility that that the Supremes will let him walk.

A self-pardon is a Wile E Coyote sort of device -- seems just the legit Super Genius thing the Acme Novelty Company would make, but then it blows up in his face if he ever tries to use it.

A secret pardon would do him no good. It would just make matters worse, since by the time he needed to reveal it, it would be too late.
 
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Yeah as soon as i heard that i knew it would only take one random person to kill it. He is only out for himself.
 

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