Trump needs to leave or be removed

Veritable Quandry

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Yes, he would be 46, and take the record for the shortest term of office. Currently that honor belongs to Harrison, who died 31 days into his term.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I can't agree with you on this. Your view of mental illness is crude at best, but even so, Trump comes pretty damn close to your description of what it would be. He really truly believes that the election was stolen from him. It's not an act, it's an extreme defense of ego and he can't help himself.

What makes him an extreme danger is that there is so very little volition and that he absolutely does not have control of his impulses. His entire psyche is built around a delusional self-image of his inherent superiority. He MUST have won because he is obviously superior and so many people love and admire him. The only way he could have suffered a humiliating loss is if it was stolen from him. And Pence absolutely had the ability to stop this theft, but chose not to, so he betrayed Trump.

He is at his most dangerous now because all his props are disappearing. The immediate gratification of Tweets to his adoring audiences is gone, he's facing censure from the media and , the loss of the PGA, the loss of his merchandizing platform. The hits just keep coming and whenever he's cornered, Trump fights back with force greater than the injury delivered. The greater the threat to his ego, the greater the violence of his reaction.

He's always been unhinged, but he's had people to buffer him and shield his outbursts from public view. He's cracking up now, worse than ever. The 25th amendment is absolutely appropriate -- conceptually -- even if it is not the most politically expedient at this time. That could change in an instant.
Having thought it through a few times, I'm with Beebo on this.

While I am certain the 25th Amendment was written to cover circumstances where there's doubt the President is out of commission -- he's had a severe stroke or heart attack, say, or is in hospital after an assassination attempt -- in theory it should also cover circumstances in which the main problem is that the President's judgment is so impaired, for whatever reason, he can't safely be trusted to discharge his various duties and responsibilities.

That's because, if the president announces that the voices in his head have told him to nuke somewhere, or he's hallucinating, then the VP has to be able to take over at least until the president has recovered.

Under those circumstances, the VP and secretaries of state wouldn't have to wait for a formal psychiatric evaluation -- they would form the view that he was unwell because his judgment was clearly impared, sign their letter, and do whatever needs to be done to make the take-over a fact.

While I'm not at all sure how they'd go about telling him Pence was relieving him of his duties, it seems to me clear that if they've formed the view that he's incapable of performing his duties because his judgment is so badly impaired there's no alternative, then it's their duty so to do.

However, under the present circumstances, I think impeachment would be the better way to remove him, since it's an equally applicable remedy for the actions that would also justify using the 25th Amendment, and one that seems far more appropriate, since the evidence he's incapable of governing is the behaviour for which he should be impeached.

ETA

 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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Dear Republicans who think they're sane (not 'radicalized').

What happened to being the 'Law & Order' party? Boy you flipped on that the moment it was inconvenient!

What happened to the 'Big Tent' party? Looks more like a sheet with holes cut in it now!
You claim to be the Party of Lincoln, but you're now the party of lynchers.

You claimed to be The Moral Majority, and yet you've been glorifying adulterers(several), sex traffickers(epstien) and pedophiles(moore) defenders(jordan)....

You were the Fiscally Conservative party... but so very much worse for our Debt & Deficit than democrats EVERY TERM, for decades.

You were the 'Classy' party. Elegance, suits, ties, tradition, not casual free spirits like the left. Now you're the party of khakis, tee-shirts and neckbeards.

You were the 'Smart' party, shrewdly leading and influencing the world through diplomacy and covert CIA ops, now you're dumb puppets for Russian trolls.

You were the 'Strong on Defense' party, of national strength and readiness. Now you can't even be bothered regulate fuel and power production safely.

You were vigilant about protecting America from 'The Red Menace' and when it vanished... you became it.
 

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In other democracies, a leader who tried to overthrow an election result and incited a violent insurrection might well be cooling his heels in prison by now. In this country, the job of policing the President falls largely on the legislative branch. For four years, it has failed dismally to carry out this task. Even after the unprecedented events of last week, it’s far from clear that Congress will prove up to the task now. But this time, surely, and for the sake of American democracy, Trump must be held accountable.
 

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To imagine that Trump will fade away after January 20 requires the denial of everything Americans know about the president’s massive ego, his aversion to being seen as a loser, and his determination to avenge his defeat in the 2020 election. That is why former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich and others have focused on the importance not merely of holding Trump to account for past actions but of assuring that he does not extend the threat to the republic by positioning himself as a president-in-exile after he leaves office. “We must,” says Reich, “ensure that Donald Trump can never hold public office again.”
 

Aribeth Zelin

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Dear Republicans who think they're sane (not 'radicalized').

What happened to being the 'Law & Order' party? Boy you flipped on that the moment it was inconvenient!

What happened to the 'Big Tent' party? Looks more like a sheet with holes cut in it now!
You claim to be the Party of Lincoln, but you're now the party of lynchers.

You claimed to be The Moral Majority, and yet you've been glorifying adulterers(several), sex traffickers(epstien) and pedophiles(moore) defenders(jordan)....

You were the Fiscally Conservative party... but so very much worse for our Debt & Deficit than democrats EVERY TERM, for decades.

You were the 'Classy' party. Elegance, suits, ties, tradition, not casual free spirits like the left. Now you're the party of khakis, tee-shirts and neckbeards.

You were the 'Smart' party, shrewdly leading and influencing the world through diplomacy and covert CIA ops, now you're dumb puppets for Russian trolls.

You were the 'Strong on Defense' party, of national strength and readiness. Now you can't even be bothered regulate fuel and power production safely.

You were vigilant about protecting America from 'The Red Menace' and when it vanished... you became it.
Mind if i swipe this and post it on Facebook?
 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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Not enough. Even without holding public office, he's going to be stirring up trouble for the rest of his life.

If he can't be hanged for treason... he should at least be locked up on suicide watch for the rest of his life.

ETA: feel free to copy/hack/paraphrase whatever, no rights reserved. :D
 
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detrius

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Dear Republicans who think they're sane (not 'radicalized').

What happened to being the 'Law & Order' party? Boy you flipped on that the moment it was inconvenient!

What happened to the 'Big Tent' party? Looks more like a sheet with holes cut in it now!
You claim to be the Party of Lincoln, but you're now the party of lynchers.

You claimed to be The Moral Majority, and yet you've been glorifying adulterers(several), sex traffickers(epstien) and pedophiles(moore) defenders(jordan)....

You were the Fiscally Conservative party... but so very much worse for our Debt & Deficit than democrats EVERY TERM, for decades.

You were the 'Classy' party. Elegance, suits, ties, tradition, not casual free spirits like the left. Now you're the party of khakis, tee-shirts and neckbeards.

You were the 'Smart' party, shrewdly leading and influencing the world through diplomacy and covert CIA ops, now you're dumb puppets for Russian trolls.

You were the 'Strong on Defense' party, of national strength and readiness. Now you can't even be bothered regulate fuel and power production safely.

You were vigilant about protecting America from 'The Red Menace' and when it vanished... you became it.
If I was Chuck Schumer, I'd tell minority leader Mitch McConnell that this thing can either be over tomorrow or else there will be a thorough impeachment trial in the Senate, in which every single witness will be called, phone calls and emails scrutinized, every secret deal will be made public and financial ties exposed.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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If I was Chuck Schumer, I'd tell minority leader Mitch McConnell that this thing can either be over tomorrow or else there will be a thorough impeachment trial in the Senate, in which every single witness will be called, phone calls and emails scrutinized, every secret deal will be made public and financial ties exposed.
The problem is, until Jan 20th, McConnell is the majority leader still; for the same reason that changes then. Pence is the tie breaker.
 

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The problem is, until Jan 20th, McConnell is the majority leader still; for the same reason that changes then. Pence is the tie breaker.
They can run impeachment through the House now, and follow up with the Senate trial after the 21st. But that doesn't solve what we're trying to solve here. Because it keeps Trump in power right up to the end.
 

Fionalein

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They can run impeachment through the House now, and follow up with the Senate trial after the 21st. But that doesn't solve what we're trying to solve here. Because it keeps Trump in power right up to the end.
Though I doubt he will be as much danger now. Hopefully the FBI has learned something about taking mentally ill terrorists seriously, they can ask their homicide depertment for tips on how to deal with psychopaths.
 
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Fionalein

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Before last Wednesday, he still thought he had a "path to winning."

Now he pretty much realizes he has nothing. How does that make him less dangerous now?
His enablers in high places fell away, I really hope the Pentagon has a taskforce ready to discuss and if neccesary refuse any shenanigans he might be up to. His base is most likely on close watch by Homelands Security and the FBI now.

His intentions might get more malignant, but the most harm he could do now IMHO would blowing away his own head (which would incite the conspiracy powderkeg).
 

Cindy Claveau

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Before last Wednesday, he still thought he had a "path to winning."

Now he pretty much realizes he has nothing. How does that make him less dangerous now?
He won't be less dangerous until he's stripped of his public influence (thank you Twitter) and the news media begins to treat him for what he is - a narcissistic psychopath capable of enraging his idiot base and creating more problems in the future.

I doubt that, for all their word service, the R's will ever vote to impeach him until Trump is out of office. There is no time limit on impeachment, which means the Dems can still convict him in the Senate after the 20th and hopefully bar him from ever holding public office again. It may be a bit of a long shot right now, but let's see what else he does in the interim and what other R's finally wake up and lock the door behind him.
 

Veritable Quandry

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Twitter has done more than anyone else to make him less dangerous. He has lost his direct channel to inflame and incite his followers, making it harder to stir up coordinated action. Expect more violence but in smaller groups and moe scattered.
 

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Twitter has done more than anyone else to make him less dangerous. He has lost his direct channel to inflame and incite his followers, making it harder to stir up coordinated action. Expect more violence but in smaller groups and moe scattered.