The Republican war on women

Innula Zenovka

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I think that the assault on women and women's reproductive rights in the US deserves a thread all of its own.

Here's something to kick it off, in which we have Ohio legislators trying make it a legal duty for doctors, on pains of murder charges if they do not comply, to attempt a procedure unknown to medical science:


 
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danielravennest

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I think that the assault on women and women's reproductive rights in the US deserves a thread all of its own.

Here's something to kick it off, in which we have Ohio legislators trying make it a legal duty for doctors, on pains of murder charges if they do not comply, to attempt a procedure unknown to medical science:
The text of the law says "Take all possible steps..." Since reimplanting an ectopic fetus is impossible, they can't be tried under this law. I mean, the DA could try, but a judge would likely toss the case once a few doctors explained the situation.

Nonetheless, the stupidity of state legislators knows no bounds. Indiana came within a hair of legislating pi to be 3.2 It had already passed the state House, but fortunately a mathematics professor was in town and talked the state Senate out of it.
 

Rose Karuna

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Nothing is impossible with the power of prayer.
All I can do is hope that if there is a hell, the people who are making laws like this spend their time there being repeatedly raped and then being forced to carry the child to term and give birth. Over, and over and over again for eternity.
 

Kara Spengler

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The text of the law says "Take all possible steps..." Since reimplanting an ectopic fetus is impossible, they can't be tried under this law. I mean, the DA could try, but a judge would likely toss the case once a few doctors explained the situation.

Nonetheless, the stupidity of state legislators knows no bounds. Indiana came within a hair of legislating pi to be 3.2 It had already passed the state House, but fortunately a mathematics professor was in town and talked the state Senate out of it.
Yeah, was thinking much the same thing. These proposals and laws tend to fail by being nonspecific. If you tell a doctor to take the relevant steps to do an impossible thing those relevant steps would be to listen to the proposal and laugh.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Who are the constituency for this kind of crackpot and unworkable legislative theatre?

Admittedly my exposure to the British anti-abortion subculture is limited to conversations with older Catholic and (by marriage) Hindu relatives, back when I had older relatives (now I am other people's older relative!), but even they tended to hold views on the matter that were considerably more liberal than anything their respective religions would have considered orthodox, not least because of both their experience of life, and that of members of their extended families.

I fully understand the anti-abortion movement's continued attempts to undermine Roe vs Wade by passing a series of statutes that provide the Supreme Court with opportunities to chip away at women's reproductive freedom, but that's rather different from trying to pass a statute based on an obviously and preposterously counterfactual premise.

Cui bono? What does anyone gain from this?
 

danielravennest

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Who are the constituency for this kind of crackpot and unworkable legislative theatre?
Cui bono? What does anyone gain from this?
The legislators who vote for this get the backing of anti-abortion voters. I think many of them are aware the laws will get thrown out as soon as a case is brought. That doesn't matter, they voted for it, and can tout it in their campaigns. Democrats picked up 5 out of 99 seats in the Ohio House in 2018, but it is still pretty lopsided for Republicans (61/38 House, 24/9 Senate). The state is ~80% white (we get new data next year in the decennial census) vs ~58% for the US as a whole.
 

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The trick is they want most of these laws to get tossed. So they can claim to be the victims and keep the zealots voting for them. Ohio's legislative map doesn't help, since it creates so many districts that are uncompetitive that Republicans are more worried about a primary challenge from the right than a serious general election challenge.
 

Kara Spengler

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Who are the constituency for this kind of crackpot and unworkable legislative theatre?

Admittedly my exposure to the British anti-abortion subculture is limited to conversations with older Catholic and (by marriage) Hindu relatives, back when I had older relatives (now I am other people's older relative!), but even they tended to hold views on the matter that were considerably more liberal than anything their respective religions would have considered orthodox, not least because of both their experience of life, and that of members of their extended families.

I fully understand the anti-abortion movement's continued attempts to undermine Roe vs Wade by passing a series of statutes that provide the Supreme Court with opportunities to chip away at women's reproductive freedom, but that's rather different from trying to pass a statute based on an obviously and preposterously counterfactual premise.

Cui bono? What does anyone gain from this?
In the US it is the religious types that like it. It generally goes hand-in-hand with the same people who do not think out details so you find a lot of politicians giving it lip service in some odd way.

As a related example, evangelicals LOVE donnie. Despite him being a walking example of what they tell people not to do.
 

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Who are the constituency for this kind of crackpot and unworkable legislative theatre?
Evangelicals, who have developed almost an antipathy for facts. Combine this with widespread ignorance about how women's bodies actually work and you end up with legislation from Bizarro World.

There's always been a strong anti-intellectual streak in American culture and it's turned into more of a raging river now. All expertise -- such as that held by the doctors -- is suspect and not credible. It's a sign of their liberal bias and thus discounted.
 

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Somehow, someway, men - Evangelical men, to be exact - have gotten it in their heads that God has given them ownership of women's bodies and what goes on within them, and they have perverted passages in the Bible to make it appear so.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I suspect that one of the things underlying this nonsense is a desire to hide from the logical consequences of the extreme anti-abortion position: that is, if the fertilised egg is to be treated as a fully-alive human from the moment of conception whose right to life enjoys full legal protection at all times -- a theological position -- then it follows that a doctor's removing the misplaced egg from the mother's fallopian tubes is, at best, justifiable homicide in the course of defending the mother's life.

However, since they're unwilling to argue so stark a case, this bizarre measure's advocates are trying to provide their constituents with a comforting fairytale to suggest that an ectopic pregnancy is no more than a medical inconvenience, and certainly not a serious medical emergency in which the embryo has gone rogue and is attacking the body of which it's a part, not unlike a cancer cell.

But I think there's more to it than this, though, even though I can't quite identify it -- some sort of performative and threatening nastiness, in which they're saying something like "Look at all these laws we can pass to control you, no matter how murderous and nonsensical they may be."
 

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Somehow, someway, men - Evangelical men, to be exact - have gotten it in their heads that God has given them ownership of women's bodies and what goes on within them, and they have perverted passages in the Bible to make it appear so.
Sadly, not just the men.
 

Rose Karuna

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I suspect that one of the things underlying this nonsense is a desire to hide from the logical consequences of the extreme anti-abortion position: that is, if the fertilised egg is to be treated as a fully-alive human from the moment of conception whose right to life enjoys full legal protection at all times -- a theological position -- then it follows that a doctor's removing the misplaced egg from the mother's fallopian tubes is, at best, justifiable homicide in the course of defending the mother's life.

However, since they're unwilling to argue so stark a case, this bizarre measure's advocates are trying to provide their constituents with a comforting fairytale to suggest that an ectopic pregnancy is no more than a medical inconvenience, and certainly not a serious medical emergency in which the embryo has gone rogue and is attacking the body of which it's a part, not unlike a cancer cell.

But I think there's more to it than this, though, even though I can't quite identify it -- some sort of performative and threatening nastiness, in which they're saying something like "Look at all these laws we can pass to control you, no matter how murderous and nonsensical they may be."
Certain evangelical factions [men mostly] of the Christian sect have had their panties in a bunch since Margaret Sanger came out with the first birth control clinic giving women safe and effective freedom from pregnancy. The only reason they have not outlawed birth control is because men want to screw around and not to take legal responsibility if a child results in it. Being anti-abortion even at the expense or life of the woman is how they think they are continuing to control the female population. We better stick together as women and vote these people out because it's getting so crazy now that our lives are at stake. :(
 

Jolene Benoir

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Certain evangelical factions [men mostly] of the Christian sect have had their panties in a bunch since Margaret Sanger came out with the first birth control clinic giving women safe and effective freedom from pregnancy. The only reason they have not outlawed birth control is because men want to screw around and not to take legal responsibility if a child results in it. Being anti-abortion even at the expense or life of the woman is how they think they are continuing to control the female population. We better stick together as women and vote these people out because it's getting so crazy now that our lives are at stake. :(
I would argue that they want to go after birth control, as well. They've never gotten over a woman being able to decide when she wishes to bring a human into the world, and most certainly don't believe that she has the same right to autonomy as a man. They prefer "barefoot and pregnant". They've certainly attacked sex education and diverted money meant for such to their own "abstinence" fraud organizations.

The darker image evident in their attacking of all sexual freedoms that women may hold is that it allows them to keep women in their place. Got an abusive boyfriend/husband who gets you pregnant? Well, little woman, you're going to have to carry that baby. You need help doing that, you say? Noooo....I'm sorry the God that I pray to says that you must suffer for your indiscretion. He raped you? Oh, well...you see, woman's bodies have a way of shutting that down if they're not enjoying it, so you wouldn't have gotten pregnant if you hadn't enjoyed it. Besides, we're not making any exceptions for rape, of any kind.
 

Kalel

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Sadly, not just the men.
I feel bad for them. These women are trapped in a life of cultism and brainwashing. fear, lack of information, a steady diet of self hating, figurehead worship language. They use the bible as their guide. i

they think they are pure. internet access is limited(if they even know how to use a computer... and of course they only use it to reenforce their position and the computer supports that using AI.. good job!) no one can get close enough to help them show theres more out there. they have no wish to explore beyond their realms cause they feel everything is provided already. And don't want to do anything that could leave them out in the cold without food or shelter or away from their kids..

Like a song that gets stuck in your head. all these songs about saving our lives and "Thank you jesus.." short simple repeated words. just like trump.

They are incapable of thinking anything else. a US version of North Korea...

Titus 2:4-5 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

Ephesians 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Proverbs 31:15-30
15 She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants.
16 She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.”
30Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
I imagine some Beta type men also fall into the category "This is the only way" and get taken advantaged of but woman have it far worse.
 
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Cristalle

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I feel bad for them. These women are trapped in a life of cultism and brainwashing. fear, lack of information, a steady diet of self hating, figurehead worship language. They use the bible as their guide. i

they think they are pure. internet access is limited(if they even know how to use a computer... and of course they only use it to reenforce their position and the computer supports that using AI.. good job!) no one can get close enough to help them show theres more out there. they have no wish to explore beyond their realms cause they feel everything is provided already. And don't want to do anything that could leave them out in the cold without food or shelter or away from their kids..

Like a song that gets stuck in your head. all these songs about saving our lives and "Thank you jesus.." short simple repeated words. just like trump.

They are incapable of thinking anything else. a US version of North Korea...



I imagine some Beta type men also fall into the category "This is the only way"
I don't want to take away their agency, because there are some people who sincerely believe that abortion should not be allowed except in maybe the most egregious of circumstances. I don't want to conflate those people with the kind that really have not ever questioned and search their faith for what they believe. But that latter kind is rather rare in the circle of people that we are discussing. Environment is a powerful shaper of opinion, especially on youth, but There are some people who are sincere. There are always zealots in every group.
 
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