Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action

[Jolene Benoir]

Supreme Court strikes down college affirmative action programs

The ruling is the culmination of decades of effort to end the consideration of race in admissions.

www.nbcnews.com

The Supreme Court on Thursday struck down affirmative action programs at the University of North Carolina and Harvard in a major victory for conservative activists, ending the systematic consideration of race in the admissions process.

The court ruled that both programs violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution and are therefore unlawful. The vote was 6-3 in the UNC case and 6-2 in the Harvard case, in which liberal Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson was recused.

The court effectively overturned the 2003 ruling Grutter v. Bollinger, in which the court said race could be considered as a factor in the admissions process because universities had a compelling interest in maintaining diverse campuses. In doing so the court scrapped decades of precedent, including one ruling dating to 1978, that upheld a limited consideration of race in university admissions as a way to combat historic discrimination against Black people and other minorities.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Supreme Court strikes down college affirmative action programs

The ruling is the culmination of decades of effort to end the consideration of race in admissions.

www.nbcnews.com

Are they allowed to consider the socio-economic status of candidates and their parents? Seems to me that might be a good way both of promoting diversity and for providing opportunities to students from under-represented backgrounds.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Are they allowed to consider the socio-economic status of candidates and their parents? Seems to me that might be a good way both of promoting diversity and for providing opportunities to students from under-represented backgrounds.

This article says yes.

Zamir Ben-Dan, an assistant law professor at Temple University, said higher education institutions will be able to continue to “promote diversity based on background, based on socioeconomic experiences,” among other experiences.

Affirmative action ruling: 4 things students should know

Here are four things aspiring college students of color and their families should know about what changes to expect in the admissions process.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Well the most interesting thing about that decision for me is that for once the GOP is in sync with the majority of Americans. 65% of the Americans, including 57% of Latinos, many Biden voters and blacks - do oppose race as an admissions criterion.

What role do Americans think race should play in college admissions? | YouGov

About half of Americans (51%) believe there is equal opportunity for education in the U.S., regardless of a person's race; 41% disagree.

today.yougov.com

How America Fell Out of Love With Affirmative Action

For once, SCOTUS and public are in sync. A poll found 65% of the U.S.—including 57% of Latinos, and a plurality of Biden voters and Blacks—oppose race as an admissions criterion.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Archer]

Since when does "unfavorable polling" make anything right or wrong? The American public is notorious for being swayed by media, and also for not being the most astute of critical thinkers. Less than 15 years ago, a majority also said gay marriage should not be legal. You can't base this type of policy on public opinion.

 

[Noodles]

Well the most interesting thing about that decision for me is that for once the GOP is in sync with the majority of Americans. 65% of the Americans, including 57% of Latinos, many Biden voters and blacks - do oppose race as an admissions criterion.

This is kind of an annoying issue overall, and I feel like I can't quite get the proper way to phrase this.

I think for the most part, people agree with the idea that race (etc) should not be an issue in hiring/recruiting/selecting students etc. The problem comes more from without something like Affirmative Action forcing it, the default becomes, "We will select white men."

Basically, in a perfect world where ingrained
bias and racism on the part of those selecting candidates, didn't come into play, then Affirmative Action is in fact, bad. But unfortunatrly, we don't live in that world. So we need things like Affirmative Action.

Its also become incredibly obvious over the past 8-10 years now, that while at one point it really felt like we were starting to get on track to that perfect world style existence, we are definitely not anywhere close and a large chunk of idiots are working REALLY HARD to drag everyone backwards.

 

[Khamon]

^^^ What Noodles Said ^^^

We were just reaching a point in this country where AA and such practices had tempered public opinion enough that there was serious discussion, across the board, to begin slowly retiring the requirements. Then the Nazis reared their heads and even those of us in the deep south were shocked of their number and tenacity. Now we're right back where we started, in the sixties, and there is still a steady rip tide pulling us toward the nineteen-fifties. From there we'll warp into the eighteen-fifties so have to stop this backward motion at all costs.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Are they allowed to consider the socio-economic status of candidates and their parents?

I don't see why not. After all, they've been doing that for centuries. Young white men of affluent parents who attended that same university -- and who have made large donations to the institution -- are assured of admission, regardless of their academic abilities. George Bush, for instance, would never have been accepted to Yale if not for the "socio-economic status" of his parents.

What I find most interesting about this case is that Affirmative Action was the target, rather than Legacy admissions. That tells you all you need to know about who controls the levers of power in this country. No one cares if mediocre white boys get into college, they only get their knickers in a twist over minorities battling for the space that remains.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Basically, in a perfect world where ingrained
bias and racism on the part of those selecting candidates, didn't come into play, then Affirmative Action is in fact, bad. But unfortunatrly, we don't live in that world. So we need things like Affirmative Action.

Agreed! I think a major issue with conservative policy in general is they want to make such "perfect world" assumptions. In their minds democrats are often creating problems where everything was fine!

Why do we need welfare? You should just get a job!

Why would you need an abortion if you're married and ready to have a kid?

Why do you need regulation? Corporations will do the right thing!

Don't want to go to prison? Just don't have a substance abuse disorder!

On the surface, these all sound reasonable, but oversimply life.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

What I find most interesting about this case is that Affirmative Action was the target, rather than Legacy admissions. That tells you all you need to know about who controls the levers of power in this country. No one cares if mediocre white boys get into college, they only get their knickers in a twist over minorities battling for the space that remains.

Quite a bit of my daily news feed has become about Legacy Admissions. The arguments in favor of LA's don't even make sense to me. They're feeding a separate intelligensia class just when we need more unity, not more classes.

Just had a thought - would my alumni school give my children Legacy Status? Nah. I'm not rich enough. I haven't had any buildings named after me. My kids will have me in support of their higher ed, that's it. I just know it will never be in Texas or Florida.

 

[WolfEyes]

^^^ What Noodles Said ^^^

We were just reaching a point in this country where AA and such practices had tempered public opinion enough that there was serious discussion, across the board, to begin slowly retiring the requirements. Then the Nazis reared their heads and even those of us in the deep south were shocked of their number and tenacity. Now we're right back where we started, in the sixties, and there is still a steady rip tide pulling us toward the nineteen-fifties. From there we'll warp into the eighteen-fifties so have to stop this backward motion at all costs.

I'm sorry. The South never did get out of the 60s. That's why I left and won't ever go back. It hasn't changed in the past 60 years, it isn't going to change any time soon.

 

[WolfEyes]

Agreed! I think a major issue with conservative policy in general is they want to make such "perfect world" assumptions. In their minds democrats are often creating problems where everything was fine!

Why do we need welfare? You should just get a job!

Why would you need an abortion if you're married and ready to have a kid?

Why do you need regulation? Corporations will do the right thing!

Don't want to go to prison? Just don't have a substance abuse disorder!

On the surface, these all sound reasonable, but oversimply life.

Understated but well put.

 

[Essence Lumin]

I'm certain my former college doesn't do legacy admissions. It will help your pocketbook if you are a citizen of the state of Washington though.

Home

www.evergreen.edu

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Since this bad ruling is related to the affirmative action one....

They also knocked down the relief that Biden offered those of us who cannot pay the usurious loans known as student loans. Because one, that would help poor people [tm] and two, help the economy for same poor people [tm] even though it helps everyone to have an actual strong economy.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

It would serve conservatives right if the ratio of white/male/christian men being accepted for jobs / enrollment -went-down- as a result.

"oh I'm sorry, did you believe that advocating for discrimination was going to work in your favor?! We'd rather have students and staff that get along with each other. Thanks for your interest, good luck with your future prospects elsewhere."

 

[Beebo Brink]

Quite a bit of my daily news feed has become about Legacy Admissions. The arguments in favor of LA's don't even make sense to me. They're feeding a separate intelligensia class just when we need more unity, not more classes.

If people believe that school admissions should be based on merit, then there is no valid argument for Legacy Admissions. If you allow Legacy Admissions -- which is an explicit arrangement based on qualities unrelated to merit -- then there is no valid reason to disallow admissions based on race. So fine, sweep away Affirmative Action, but only if the entire slate is wiped clean.

Just like I now have the right to refuse service to Christians since I'm not a Christian and any service I perform for a Christian will be misconstrued as my approval of and belief in Christianity.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Since this bad ruling is related to the affirmative action one....

They also knocked down the relief that Biden offered those of us who cannot pay the usurious loans known as student loans. Because one, that would help poor people [tm] and two, help the economy for same poor people [tm] even though it helps everyone to have an actual strong economy.

The fact that helping the poor helps the overall economy is well known to economists. ...but conservatives and libertarians don't know this and don't want to know this. It's probably the most important reason "free market" economics is wrong. Money needs to circulate for a healthy economy.

 

[Noodles]

It would serve conservatives right if the ratio of white/male/christian men being accepted for jobs / enrollment -went-down- as a result.

"oh I'm sorry, did you believe that advocating for discrimination was going to work in your favor?! We'd rather have students and staff that get along with each other. Thanks for your interest, good luck with your future prospects elsewhere."

This whole event kind of begs the question.

What if schools, workplaces, etc, just, continue diversity based hiring. Can some white dude sue if he loses the job to a black woman now because "Affirmative action isn't legal."

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

If people believe that school admissions should be based on merit, then there is no valid argument for Legacy Admissions. If you allow Legacy Admissions -- which is an explicit arrangement based on qualities unrelated to merit -- then there is no valid reason to disallow admissions based on race. So fine, sweep away Affirmative Action, but only if the entire slate is wiped clean.

Just like I now have the right to refuse service to Christians since I'm not a Christian and any service I perform for a Christian will be misconstrued as my approval of and belief in Christianity.

Yup, specifically because I do creative work, so I can refuse service to bigots because that's against my faith [and I -am- ordained, so... ]

 

[Cindy Claveau]