[RFC] "This mad sexual brainwashing must be resisted"

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid Hologram
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,162
Location
Coonspiracy Central, Noonkkot
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sep 2009
SLU Posts
20780
This ferret burns water. :ferret:
 

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
id love to hear what you guys, especially Innula, think


im personally like "what the heck?" :eek: way too tired and fed up but since so linked me to the article, a request for comments

thanx
For those of you who didn't read it, that absurd thing is full of gems like "The old wisdom that humans thrive best when sex and child-bearing are kept for maturity and preferably marriage" and then he keeps citing himself and other authors on that website to prove his points. Classic example of evangelicals pulling facts out of their butts, then engaging in circular reasoning. The fact that teenagers will fuck even if we tell them not to flies way over their heads.

They demand high standards or proof from secular people, then just flat ignore the fact that abstinence education actually had many more years to try to prove it worked.

It's a kind of funny, but REALLY sad fact that in America, urgent cares and ER's periodically get women who are shocked to find out they are pregnant and had NO IDEA sex got you pregnant. Abstinence only educators are so damn dumb, they will try to tell children to not have sex without making it clear what sex is. Denying children this knowledge is abuse.

It also touches on the wider question of the rights of children vs parents, which are viewed very differently in the USA from the way they are seen in many other places.
I'm very jealous of European laws on this issue. American evangelical dads think god speaks directly through them and American "mommy" culture has degenerated into one hell of an anti intellectual cult. Getting knocked up/getting someone knocked up isn't a scientific qualification, but an incredible amount of Americans think it is.

Gosh, The Conservative Woman appears to be an English (as opposed to British) blog, but the ideas therein seem to derive very much from the US right-wing. I think they're part and parcel of the same lot who regularly jump on the hearses of sad cases like those of Alfie Evans and Charlie Gard.
Don't try to pin this all on us! Most of Europe, especially the UK and Italy have their own batshit insane conservative traditions that have nothing to do with the US! haha.
 

Brenda Archer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,287
Location
Arizona
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sept 2007
SLU Posts
12005
For those of you who didn't read it, that absurd thing is full of gems like "The old wisdom that humans thrive best when sex and child-bearing are kept for maturity and preferably marriage" and then he keeps citing himself and other authors on that website to prove his points. Classic example of evangelicals pulling facts out of their butts, then engaging in circular reasoning. The fact that teenagers will fuck even if we tell them not to flies way over their heads.

They demand high standards or proof from secular people, then just flat ignore the fact that abstinence education actually had many more years to try to prove it worked.

It's a kind of funny, but REALLY sad fact that in America, urgent cares and ER's periodically get women who are shocked to find out they are pregnant and had NO IDEA sex got you pregnant. Abstinence only educators are so damn dumb, they will try to tell children to not have sex without making it clear what sex is. Denying children this knowledge is abuse.



I'm very jealous of European laws on this issue. American evangelical dads think god speaks directly through them and American "mommy" culture has degenerated into one hell of an anti intellectual cult. Getting knocked up/getting someone knocked up isn't a scientific qualification, but an incredible amount of Americans think it is.



Don't try to pin this all on us! Most of Europe, especially the UK and Italy have their own batshit insane conservative traditions that have nothing to do with the US! haha.
It’s absolutely maddening that in 2019 kids who are IN A SCHOOL don’t know these basic biological facts.
 

EmpressOfCommunism

Too Cute for Capitalism ❤️
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
311
SL Rez
2008
Joined SLU
2015
SLU Posts
266
I read the title, thought it might be a good article about the nasty culture of coercion and sexualization of children among society's upper crust leading to the Epstein situation, and was sorely disappointed.
 

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
I read the title, thought it might be a good article about the nasty culture of coercion and sexualization of children among society's upper crust leading to the Epstein situation, and was sorely disappointed.
I think those discussions are relevant. One of the many, many, many, many, many.... many false beliefs abstinence only people think is that sex education makes children more vulnerable to predators. The exact opposite is true because children kept in the dark have absolutely no idea what it even means to be molested or sexually taken advantage of. They think it's this weird activity they were told to keep a secret, and they will keep it a secret because such things aren't talked about in their house. A vital part of the UN sexual education curriculum that the guy in OP was insulting is going over consent and "bad touching."
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,157
SLU Posts
18459
Don't try to pin this all on us! Most of Europe, especially the UK and Italy have their own batshit insane conservative traditions that have nothing to do with the US! haha.
We do, but I'm looking at the history of the people involved in that particular website, and it certainly seems to lead directly back, in several cases, to involvement in causes sponsored by a bizarre form of extreme Catholic teachings weaponized by US based members of the the socially conservative "pro-life" movement.

They're a bit like a Catholic version of the DUP, if such an abomination existed, and that ain't from these parts.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Brenda Archer

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
We do, but I'm looking at the history of the people involved in that particular website, and it certainly seems to lead directly back, in several cases, to involvement in causes sponsored by a bizarre form of extreme Catholic teachings weaponized by US based members of the the socially conservative "pro-life" movement.

They're a bit like a Catholic version of the DUP, if such an abomination existed, and that ain't from these parts.
A lot of Evangelical ideas arguably can be traced back to Victorian morality. Americans took that then added some redneck elements that definitely fed back into European conservative parties. You're welcome!
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Brenda Archer

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,157
SLU Posts
18459
A lot of Evangelical ideas arguably can be traced back to Victorian morality. Americans took that then added some redneck elements that definitely fed back into European conservative parties. You're welcome!
Could you give me an example of what you mean? At least as far as I remember, the whole rise of the Evangelical Conservative "Moral Majority" constituency was associated with Nixon's "Southern strategy" and was regarded here (still is) as very much a US-based phenomenon which people now and again try to export to Europe, with very little success, thank heavens, at least in the West of the Continent.

Certainly there's no "born-again" constituency in mainland UK politics, and the right to life movement has never had any sort of constituency here -- just look at what the House of Commons did (better late than never) about abortion and same sex marriage in NI, only this week, to pretty much universal approval other than in the extreme Ulster Protestant community.

 
Last edited:

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
The "moral majority" was basically the wacky extreme religious minority in the US coming out of the closet. They were always here, they came over from Europe when they kicked the Puritans out.
And a lot of their theology has very clear roots with all kinds of wacky shit medieval cults came up with. I don't think they have that many ideas that are truly original to the US.
 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Brenda Archer

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,157
SLU Posts
18459
And a lot of their theology has very clear roots with all kinds of wacky shit medieval cults came up with. I don't think they have that many ideas that are truly original to the US.
Yes, these ideas developed one way in the USA and another way in most European countries, and now attempts are being made to export them back.

The Roman and Greek Catholic churches, the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches, and the various episcopal and non-episcopal Protestant denominations all have very clear roots in Judea, Palestine and Greece some 2000 years ago, but that doesn't make them all the same thing.
 

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
Yes, these ideas developed one way in the USA and another way in most European countries, and now attempts are being made to export them back.

The Roman and Greek Catholic churches, the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches, and the various episcopal and non-episcopal Protestant denominations all have very clear roots in Judea, Palestine and Greece some 2000 years ago, but that doesn't make them all the same thing.
Although I don't necessarily believe these are all the same thing, I do think that's closer to the truth than the belief that this blog was US exported. There is no question that European conservatives absorbed some terminology from the US, but I think his whole argument about sex ed and LGBT people would be pretty similar if you rewrote that article without the US influences.
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,157
SLU Posts
18459
Although I don't necessarily believe these are all the same thing, I do think that's closer to the truth than the belief that this blog was US exported. There is no question that European conservatives absorbed some terminology from the US, but I think his whole argument about sex ed and LGBT people would be pretty similar if you rewrote that article without the US influences.
And I've seen nothing like it the mainstream UK Conservative media during the last 25 or 30 years.

I could well be mistaken, though, which is why I'm asking you to point me to some of the evidence on which you base your conclusions.
 

Aeon Jiminy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
192
Hello. I just landed on this topic. Since I'm kind of a pariah in other places around here, my take might be deemed unsuitable for consumption. It's very difficult to answer the author of the article when she's armed with generations of accepted bumper stickers in her head. My social media time is running out, so my bumper sticker is: " Real Freedom Is A Very Scary Thing".

This is the pariah part: The human race is a pack of liars and we're collectively losing a grip on our lies. Drops of truth are seeping in and children are killing themselves. It's not because they can't live with the truth, they can't live with the overwhelming lies. "“ ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal". Could they have written a bigger crock of s--t? Let's start by disarming it's nukes and it's crusade. Can we please disarm the temples of immaculate conception, the chosen ones, the ones with crowns, and all of the other institutions of baloney indoctrination? Students and teachers should be a circle of mutual respect. Truth doesn't cage a mass of human cattle and train them to serve and feed the needs of a chosen few. Lies do that.
 

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
And I've seen nothing like it the mainstream UK Conservative media during the last 25 or 30 years.

I could well be mistaken, though, which is why I'm asking you to point me to some of the evidence on which you base your conclusions.
The blog itself is evidence and for a bigger, more mainstream example that is relatively recent, I can refer you to the debates around Section 28 under Margret Thatcher. For some older history, the UK banned abortion in 1861, well before the American "pro-life" movement and during the Victorian morality I mentioned earlier. Pro life movements sprang up everywhere it was legalized or attempted to be legalized.

Asking for evidence is fair, but you are also drawing a distinction between it being mainstream or not, which raises questions about where the goal posts are. I've had discussions like this before where someone claims something doesn't happen in their country, and that's just an embarrassing American thing, and then if I find examples of it in their country, the goal posts move.

This actually is a discussion Americans with international friends have a lot. The world wide media talks about us too much, so it gives many people all over the world a skewed view of how their country compares to us.

So if my examples above aren't good enough help me understand how much evidence you want to see. I will grant that such attitudes are more low profile in England, but they are of course there.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
1,524
SL Rez
2002
I'm very jealous of European laws on this issue. American evangelical dads think god speaks directly through them and American "mommy" culture has degenerated into one hell of an anti intellectual cult. Getting knocked up/getting someone knocked up isn't a scientific qualification, but an incredible amount of Americans think it is.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that all of Europe is equal on these terms either; some countries are more advanced than others.

Now not talking about sex education, but abortions. The case of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland 2012 really caused big shockwaves.

She was in her 17th week of pregnancy, went into hospital and the diagnosis was that her gestational sac was moving into her vagina. So a miscarriage was imminent. But since the heartbeat of her child was still there the hospital denied her abortion request due to Ireland's law.

So Halappanavar died due to a sepsis and cardiac arrest. The doctors would have been only allowed an abortion if the child would have been already dead.

So in the end both died - the fetus, which was bound to happen, and its mother as well. Leaving back the husband.

It took over six years before Ireland changed this law finally in 2018.
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,157
SLU Posts
18459
The blog itself is evidence and for a bigger, more mainstream example that is relatively recent, I can refer you to the debates around Section 28 under Margret Thatcher. For some older history, the UK banned abortion in 1861, well before the American "pro-life" movement and during the Victorian morality I mentioned earlier. Pro life movements sprang up everywhere it was legalized or attempted to be legalized.

Asking for evidence is fair, but you are also drawing a distinction between it being mainstream or not, which raises questions about where the goal posts are. I've had discussions like this before where someone claims something doesn't happen in their country, and that's just an embarrassing American thing, and then if I find examples of it in their country, the goal posts move.

This actually is a discussion Americans with international friends have a lot. The world wide media talks about us too much, so it gives many people all over the world a skewed view of how their country compares to us.

So if my examples above aren't good enough help me understand how much evidence you want to see. I will grant that such attitudes are more low profile in England, but they are of course there.
Yes, I had Section 28 in mind when I said "I've seen nothing like it the mainstream UK Conservative media during the last 25 or 30 years." Not since. Nor was Section 28 the result of any sort of grassroots pressure -- it was, as I recall, very much the pet project of various backbench Conservative peers and MPs, and as much part of the then general assault on "loony left local councils" by the government and the right-wing press. The policy was since reversed, of course, and it was the previous Conservative government who legalised same sex marriage and who are, quite rightly, supporting the schools already teaching this curriculum, which will become mandatory for all schools either this year or next (can't remember).

I really don't find examples drawn from history that persuasive, I'm afraid. Yes, the UK spent much of the C19th and early C20th tightening in the law on abortion but, in 1967, it legalised it under most circumstances and that was pretty much it. There were two or three attempts to start slicing away at it, by reducing the time limit, but the last serious one was back in the late 1980s, as I recall, and it's now pretty much settled law and considered unexceptionable.

That's in marked contrast to the position in the USA, to my mind.

All I'm asking for is for you to point me to some evidence of there being any sort of home-grown Conservative Christian "religious right" constituency in the mainland UK any time in the last 25 years, in the way I can easily point to evidence of such a constituency in the USA.

Who is our Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell?
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Brenda Archer

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
418
Yes, I had Section 28 in mind when I said "I've seen nothing like it the mainstream UK Conservative media during the last 25 or 30 years." Not since. Nor was Section 28 the result of any sort of grassroots pressure -- it was, as I recall, very much the pet project of various backbench Conservative peers and MPs, and as much part of the then general assault on "loony left local councils" by the government and the right-wing press. The policy was since reversed, of course, and it was the previous Conservative government who legalised same sex marriage and who are, quite rightly, supporting the schools already teaching this curriculum, which will become mandatory for all schools either this year or next (can't remember).

I really don't find examples drawn from history that persuasive, I'm afraid. Yes, the UK spent much of the C19th and early C20th tightening in the law on abortion but, in 1967, it legalised it under most circumstances and that was pretty much it. There were two or three attempts to start slicing away at it, by reducing the time limit, but the last serious one was back in the late 1980s, as I recall, and it's now pretty much settled law and considered unexceptionable.

That's in marked contrast to the position in the USA, to my mind.

All I'm asking for is for you to point me to some evidence of there being any sort of home-grown Conservative Christian "religious right" constituency in the mainland UK any time in the last 25 years, in the way I can easily point to evidence of such a constituency in the USA.

Who is our Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell?
I think the heart of our disagreement is that you are saying it's something fundamentally different where I'm saying it's just a matter of head counts. Obviously this viewpoint is much, much weaker in the UK. No question. I'm just trying to tell you it was always there.

You've had preachers who tried to be a Jerry Falwell, (easy enough to find them on google) but they were obviously much less successful at it.

fixed a typo.
 
Last edited: