Premium gift large texture rant

Caliandris

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Picked up the premium gift Halloween decorating pack thingy from the dispenser. Took out one of the gifts at random, a wheelbarrow with three pumpkins in it. Each pumpkin and the wheelbarrow is a 1024x1024 texture. That's right, four x 1024x1024 for one item only. The textures aren't particularly hi-res, they could easily have got away with 512s or 256 come to that. We're really losing the battle to get creators to keep to reasonable texture sizes if LL themselves are putting out this sort of stuff. They should at the very least release the textures to allow people to reduce them in size themselves if they don't care to use such big textures on everything. Growl.
 

Eunoli

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I guess I could understand if that was an amazingly textured wheel-barrel and highly detailed pumpkins and it was worth it just to display that amazing art ...but...
 
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Caliandris

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Linden Lab does not enforce it's best practices Good Building Practices - Second Life Wiki
Their information is also out of date regarding video cards. This particular page was last updated in 2013. Texture Usage - Second Life Wiki
You're not kidding. It's actually worse than I first stated - having tried to retexture the wheelbarrow (well, and succeeded) I realised it was three, count 'em, three 1024x1024 textures plus the pumpkins. So SIX 1024x1024s for that object alone. Their wreath is 4 x 1024x1024s.

As an exercise I counted up how many textures would be included in the complete Halloween set from LL. Where they include separate objects and then a linked object, for example the three pumpkins and the wheel barrow separately and then linked I have only counted them once.

The total for the whole folder is 33 x 1024x1024, 18 x 512x512, 2 x 256x512, and 5 x 256x256. Anyone like to guess how big this gem is on the light transformer?

Yep, 1024x1024

Edited to add. As you say, the wiki says "You should rarely ever use 1024 x 1024 sized textures. Try to avoid using this size as much as possible." I reckon it's around 143.5 MB for just those decorations out of a stated limit of between 128 and 256 MB for most video card memory.
 
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Veritable Quandry

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Mechanical

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You're not kidding. It's actually worse than I first stated - having tried to retexture the wheelbarrow (well, and succeeded) I realised it was three, count 'em, three 1024x1024 textures plus the pumpkins. So SIX 1024x1024s for that object alone. Their wreath is 4 x 1024x1024s......
Did they reuse any of the same textures? If so, only one istance will count against texture memory usage. (But I looked in my heart and I know the answer you're going to give...)
 

Eunoli

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It probably does bear repeating that SL is significantly better with textures now than it was in 2013 and modern bandwidth can handle a lot more texture download than it did than. That said - a sim with several people in it wearing a bunch of fancy stuff + a bunch of big textures will still eventually turn into a lagfest, especially if there's some bad physics to add into the mix.
 
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Caliandris

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Did they reuse any of the same textures? If so, only one istance will count against texture memory usage. (But I looked in my heart and I know the answer you're going to give...)
Not that I can see. Even the three textures for the pumpkins are *very* subtly different. They could easily have used the same one. The textures for the wheelbarrow are three different textures, not repeated, although actually I threw one wood texture on the thing and apart from the fact the grain went the wrong way on some parts, it didn't look terrifically different - and was certainly not noticeable from a distance, which is how most of these things will be viewed.
 
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Caliandris

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It probably does bear repeating that SL is significantly better with textures now than it was in 2013 and modern bandwidth can handle a lot more texture download than it did than. That said - a sim with several people in it wearing a bunch of fancy stuff + a bunch of big textures will still eventually turn into a lagfest, especially if there's some bad physics to add into the mix.
It's true, but it's also true that more and more creators are using 1024x1024 on *everything*, including shadow prims, tiny pieces of a build, etc. There's one creator who makes free or almost free stuff sold on the marketplace where a cupcake has multiple 1024 textures and there's barely any difference in appearance if you slap a blank texture on the model and colour it accordingly. It's not that I think 1024 is never acceptable, but that creators are using so many where they are unnecessary, often multiple unnecessary 1024s. In the case of the pumpkins in the Halloween pack, I think 512 would have been fine and 256 would have been adequate. I think there is a reason why mesh sims are laggier than prim ones, and huge textures is definitely part of that. Try walking in gacha market sims where you have so many huge textures - often for stupid things like eyes or shadows or ribbons where much smaller textures would be fine.
 

Eunoli

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Mesh sims don't have to be laggier than prim ones. They can be just as fast - but the reason isn't always just larger textures. Physics lag is a thing and it can be giant. Most newer mesh creators don't even realize they need to worry about their physics "as long as it works". I know, because I made this error once in a giant way and learned my own lesson. While the reason certainly can be and often is texture size and bandwidth, its not the only one. Scripts and physics count, too. Next time you're in a super laggy sim, it might be worth looking at 'render physics shapes' and looking for red. That can be just as bad as a bunch of twenty textures cupcakes.