Philip Rosedale Announces Major Changes to the High Fidelity Platform: “This model is not working right now”

Argent Stonecutter

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They're trying to build the fantasy of a "SRS BIZNS Second Life" like Linden Lab wanted to have around 2007 or so. Also Blue Mars and all the other SRS BIZNS virtual environments.

The market they're looking for didn't exist then and it's even less likely to exist when you have to get a $400 headset and a $1000 gaming PC to get your toes wet. Connecting people is the killer application.

Then there’s everything else where you can walk and turn with the analog sticks. These have the chance to make people ill if they aren’t used to these kind of things becasue at first it will feel like the world is moving. Eventually your brain stops freaking out but it’s not a good first experience for some people.
This seems mostly to be a problem with games that perform smooth turns, because the human visual system is not designed to deal with smooth turns. When you turn your head or body your eye snaps from point to point in what are called "saccades", and the visual system actually cuts off during a saccade.

I get sick with smooth turns in games whether they're 2d or 3d. It's not something I can get used to, it's been a problem for me for 30 years since 3d got realistic enough to fool my visual system.

I am super interested in Neos, it looks really cool, I just haven't ever been able to find anyone online when I can get online.
 
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8bit Biologist

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I believe it's been too much focus on making it pretty, and not enough into making it user friendly, and useful. Sansar is all pretty. But not much you can do.
 
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Noodles

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Argent is right. They want the "Business" side of the market but not the "kooky shady live out your dream fetish" side of the market.

Except a 3D environment does nothing for businesses that a nice web page can't do better. It's less accessible, it's clunky to use, it adds no functionality aside from a mild passing "wow factor". It also probably costs 10-20x of a nice webpage in the end.
 

Adeon Writer

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This seems mostly to be a problem with games that perform smooth turns, because the human visual system is not designed to deal with smooth turns. When you turn your head or body your eye snaps from point to point in what are called "saccades", and the visual system actually cuts off during a saccade.

I get sick with smooth turns in games whether they're 2d or 3d. It's not something I can get used to, it's been a problem for me for 30 years since 3d got realistic enough to fool my visual system.
Some games/platforms solve this with optional “snap turning” where left/right just instantly rotates you in 1/12 of a circle increments every time you push the analog sideways and return it (no auto-repeat). For smaller or larger turns you just turn in real life, which is fine.
I am super interested in Neos, it looks really cool, I just haven't ever been able to find anyone online when I can get online.
It’s really too early for NeosVR. I was given a guided tour by the lead dev but they aren’t focusing end user interface yet it’s all placeholder still. Very rough but the platform looks super promising.
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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I really like the idea of the NeosVR interface where you're holding virtual controllers to match your physical controllers with feedback information on them, though the actual details of those virtual controllers are kind of counterintuitive for me. Particularly the "shoot your controller with the other controller to turn stuff off and on" bit.

Also, no ferrets.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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But where do I get one?
 

Wildefire Walcott

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God forbid High Fidelity should have anything in common with the only successful social VR app. :rolleyes:

Can any of these headsets be used with a PC just for normal work, say so I can work on a script with the PC closed or on one side with just the goggles, a mouse, and a separate keyboard?
The PC-based headsets (Rift, Vive) have a few options for this. My favorite is Virtual Desktop. It just places whatever's displayed on your PC's desktop on a "physical" screen in a virtual environment. So you get a 2D screen in a 3D environment, and there are tons of really cool "rooms" you can drop your screen into.

We have wireless keyboards with built-in touchpads for Rift use. Even though I'm a touch-typist (don't need to see the keys), using the keyboard can be a pain when it's sitting on your lap, so I'm not sure it's practical for day-to-day use, but it can be fun. Another app, BigScreen has the same idea as Virtual Desktop, with the added bonus that you can invite other people to join you to look at what's on your computer. They'll be like sitting in the next seat of a movie theater, or right next to you on a couch. Great for watching movies/videos together (and to-date, not policed for rights violations, making it a fun movie night option).
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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It’s really too early for NeosVR. I was given a guided tour by the lead dev but they aren’t focusing end user interface yet it’s all placeholder still. Very rough but the platform looks super promising.
Well shoot, it kinda needs to hurry up.

I'm perfectly willing to forgive Sansar or HiFI** for not being Second Life 2, and not WANTING to be Second Life 2, and am willing to enjoy them for what they are. But, y'know, I really want somebody to make a Second Life 2 already.

** Well Sansar at least. I haven't ever tried HiFi, and with their shutdown of the public sims I'm not sure how I'm even supposed to do that, since the only option now is to hang out on somebody's private server? I guess? Which as a noob would just feel awkward.
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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They're called domains.

There's a bunch of private-server public domains that are basically hangouts.
 

Adeon Writer

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Yeah HF wants to be 3D websites. No central asset server, just protocol. Also as far as I can tell, no in-world collaborative building. That’s the big thing I want. That’s why I wish NeosVR had all VRChat’s users.

But for now. I will be where the people are. All my friends moved to VRC, so that’s where I am too.
 
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Beebo Brink

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They're trying to build the fantasy of a "SRS BIZNS Second Life" like Linden Lab wanted to have around 2007 or so. Also Blue Mars and all the other SRS BIZNS virtual environments.

The market they're looking for didn't exist then and it's even less likely to exist when you have to get a $400 headset and a $1000 gaming PC to get your toes wet. Connecting people is the killer application.
There is a growing, thriving business market for VR, it just doesn't look anything like HF and Sansar. I know, because I've been testing demos with my Quest. Business VR needs meeting spaces, file storage for project documents and support for a wide variety of 3D objects that can be reviewed during various stages of project development in engineering and architecture.

Business VR is focused on specific tasks that are more cost-effective in VR than they would be outside it. Sansar and HF are just general purpose virtual worlds with heavy gamer overtones that offer no competitive edge for a company.

One of the best use cases I reviewed was an engineering project in which building plans could be simulated for the client to walk through the structure. They found issues such as a doorway that was too low and would introduce risk and walkways that could be eliminated. The cost of blueprint changes was minimal, but the cost of construction rework would have been in the tens of thousands of dollars.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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There is a growing, thriving business market for VR, it just doesn't look anything like HF and Sansar.
Right... I've been hearing this prophecy since mid to the end of the 90's - and have yet to see it becoming big enough to become mainstream.

The thing is that with the Quest the technology finally is good enough and cheap enough that we'll see this happen soon.
 

Beebo Brink

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Right... I've been hearing this prophecy since mid to the end of the 90's - and have yet to see it becoming big enough to become mainstream.

The thing is that with the Quest the technology finally is good enough and cheap enough that we'll see this happen soon.
If by "mainstream" you expect business VR to become the equivalent of Excel spreadsheets, then no, that's never going to happen. Specific business VR applications are much more narrowly focused within industries. I could see VR platforms becoming an indispensable adjunct to architecture and engineering, but they're going to look more like opening up a projects app than a virtual world.

My point was that neither HF nor Sansar look anything like a business app, they look like game environment. The features they're focused on are only of tangential interest to a company looking at VR as a business tool. Their websites are a total fail as a serious business front.

Amazon Sumerian on the other hand, looks like the real deal for business. It's VR with the gamer/social aspects stripped away, leaving the parts that could be useful for a business goal. The web site for Sumerian is first-rate, the prices are amazingly cheap, and the hosting features are all about presenting information to an audience, which is what businesses need.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Nope, with mainstream I do mean that it becomes a respected and well known standard tool for some usage types, just like e.g. Photoshop is for photo editing, Maya 3D for 3d modeling or AutoCAD for CAD.
 

Beebo Brink

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Nope, with mainstream I do mean that it becomes a respected and well known standard tool for some usage types, just like e.g. Photoshop is for photo editing, Maya 3D for 3d modeling or AutoCAD for CAD.
I think within relatively short order, CAD and VR will be welded together as complementary tools. This is one of the software packages I've demoed and it's pretty impressive.
VR for Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
 

bubblesort

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I think I remember Zuckerberg once saying that if your platform doesn't attract porn, it doesn't work, and if it doesn't attract activism, it's not useful.

SL attracted lots of porn, so it works, but it never attracted very much activism. There is a little, but you know... I don't think people making anti-trump signs or holding rallies in SL are trying to have the same impact as activists on twitter and facebook.

I'm not sure how to solve that problem. Maybe AR? I hope AR matures soon. As a scripter in SL, HUDs are kind of a specialty of mine, so I'd love to play with writing HUD interfaces for the real world. The only AR glasses on the market right now are priced for industry, though, so I can't afford one to hack around with, even if Microsoft's UWP supports HoloLens.
 
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