Negative Prims/Objects

Noodles

Queen of Ramen
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
794
Location
Illinois
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
04-28-2010
SLU Posts
6947
I just wanted to see what people thought about the idea of "Negative Objects", though it probably needs a better name.

Like, an object, that removes other objects and volumes. So you could have a solid prim wall, then you could Rez a sphere as a negative object, and it would make a hole that could be passed through as a door or a window.

This is a bit different than the hollow setting since it could be off center or you could have more than one. I also wonder if it could be used somewhat to solve the hat problem on Avatars by surrounding a hat with a negative space prim that would "remove" any hair that would clip through.

Would this even be possible to add as a feature in the current engine? Would this sort of concept even be useful?
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Shiloh Lyric

Erich Templar

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
270
Location
UK
This is a common feature in most 3D modelling software, but SL has never implemented it. I think this is partly because of the way in which SL prims are created, which makes this difficult/impossible to achieve.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

A bit of a wanker
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,004
Location
Cat Country (Can't Stop Here)
SL Rez
2002
If the negative space disappears objects within it, going through the opening in the wall would disappear your avatar while in the doorway?

For a door with a complex shape surrounding that demands a Convex Hull for the sake of Land Impact, I wonder if the Experience system will allow for a super short teleport hop.
 

Conifer Dada

There's always time for another coffee.
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
39
Location
Europe (UK)
SL Rez
2006
We already have a sort of 'negative space' when path cutting, profile cutting or hollowing out objects and avatars don't disappear when in those spaces.
 

Noodles

Queen of Ramen
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
794
Location
Illinois
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
04-28-2010
SLU Posts
6947
If the negative space disappears objects within it, going through the opening in the wall would disappear your avatar while in the doorway?

For a door with a complex shape surrounding that demands a Convex Hull for the sake of Land Impact, I wonder if the Experience system will allow for a super short teleport hop.
I hadn't considered that the way SL's engine works that it would make the avatar vanish when walking through it.

I always forget that the Avatar itself is essentially just a "fancy prim".
 

OrinB

tutti fruitti
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
468
Location
UK
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
23 Sept 2009
SLU Posts
4771
We already have a sort of 'negative space' when path cutting, profile cutting or hollowing out objects and avatars don't disappear when in those spaces.
That’s because the physical mesh changes shape too. If you add in an additional prim to remove part of a current prim, then there needs to be a joining of those 2 types of mesh in order for the negative space to actually become missing from either mesh shape! We currently can’t join meshes within SL, we can only attach them to each other in groups.
 

Free

she/feline
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
13,697
Location
Underground in America
SL Rez
2008
Joined SLU
2009
SLU Posts
55565
What we really need are prim scissors...
 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Monica Dream

Noodles

Queen of Ramen
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
794
Location
Illinois
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
04-28-2010
SLU Posts
6947
That’s because the physical mesh changes shape too. If you add in an additional prim to remove part of a current prim, then there needs to be a joining of those 2 types of mesh in order for the negative space to actually become missing from either mesh shape! We currently can’t join meshes within SL, we can only attach them to each other in groups.
I really wish we could attachmesh and it would translate the rigging.

Most of the stuff I make uses other templates but being able to attach to a rigged mesh would add a lot of great options like adding bows and accessories.
Even better would be if I could attach a "plate" to a tee shirt that has the image on it, but the base shirt is just a solid color. It would make color change options way easier and make creation easier since the shirt image and base texture could be seperate.

I have seriously considered trying to learn how to make and rig mesh so I could build my own 2 part easy to edit tee models.
 

Sid

Coffee lover.
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
3,703
Location
Limburg, NL
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Yes
What we really need are prim scissors...
We need a completely overhauled in world building toolbox.
It is still basically the same spartanic shit from more then a decade ago.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: Jet Rhapsody

Monica Dream

Welcome Year Zero
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
263
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sept 2010
SLU Posts
7008
What we really need are prim scissors...
I've heard that way, way, way back in the day (03?04?) it used to be possible to burn prims.
That's a feature I want back! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: Free

Khamon

Folk Harpist
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
884
Location
Alabama
SL Rez
2003
Joined SLU
2007
We have steadily asked for subtraction through the years but have been told by the developers that it’s an impossible feature to implement In Second Life.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
4,272
Location
Gulf Coast, USA
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
I hadn't considered that the way SL's engine works that it would make the avatar vanish when walking through it.
Trivia! This is because SL prims are not really primitive shapes. They are just shaped like primitive shapes.

Like, if you could export just a plain unaltered prim cube from SL and import it into like Blender for instance, you don't get a 6-faced primitive cube. Or even a 12-tri cube (because everything in SL is triangulated, not quaded). But you get a cube that has like dozens and dozens and dozens of faces, and even internal faces, covering each of those little cuts and hollows you could have made with the SL building tool even though you didn't. It's messy mesh; but I suppose it's the only way to give SL prims that capability.

ETA: And this is the reason subtraction can't work in SL. The build tool can make the hidden faces that already exist in the prims' mesh invisible which alters the visible "shape" of the object, but it can't create and then remove whole new faces on the fly.