Microsoft Is Switching Edge To A Chromium Based Browser

Argent Stonecutter

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#2
Got mixed feelings about this. We now have basically two browser engines left. Gecko and KHTML. Firefox uses Gecko and everyone else uses a KHTML derivative (Safari, Chrome/Chromium, and now Edge).
 

Argent Stonecutter

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#4
He's got a legitimate concern about Chromium Core taking over the standards process, the way Mozilla and Microsoft have more or less done at various times. Yeh, I'm still bitter about them ignoring HTML3 and turfing the "FIGURE" tag which was infinitely better than "IMG".
 
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#5
With Microsoft moving away from EdgeHTML, that's one less competitor in the browser space, growing Chromium's market share. Mozilla worries that when Chromium's usage share gets large enough, web developers won't test their apps against anything else, going so far as to compare this to when Microsoft had a monopoly in browsers in the early 2000s.
That's pretty much my concern as well. It's going to be Microsoft vs. Netscape all over again, and we all know what happened to Netscape.
 

Free

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#7
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Sep 22, 2018
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Morbidette
#9
In open source, a monopoly is not a bad thing.

In a competitive market, a monopoly stifles development since individual needs for gain are too tightly connected to out-do what few other providers exist. Why bother making something better when all the others are a mere fraction of the leader? Maybe once the others catch up an improvement will have to be pushed, but, only just enough to take the lead again.

In open source, a monopoly optimally combines all efforts to improve and standardize as a means to the end. When the goal is simply to improve, getting better is the only answer.

I'd argue that competition actually stifles open source. Taking sides merely injects a rift in what could otherwise be a more productive collaboration. Imagine the Mozilla, Chromium, and Presto communities working together to solve each other's issues.

So, when 'nobody uses [competitor] anymore' as a result of open source and community involvement, it's like seeing that good enough is no longer being good enough anymore.
 
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#12
That's not good. Um, any chance a package list update will help? (Or, am I missing the joke?)
Looks like lynx isn't carried in that distro's repositories. There might be a third-party repo that has it, though.
 

Free

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#13
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Looks like lynx isn't carried in that distro's repositories. There might be a third-party repo that has it, though.
Mayhaps. I know it's still found in the default Ubuntu repositories.
 

Grandma Bates

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#14
Looks like lynx isn't carried in that distro's repositories. There might be a third-party repo that has it, though.
Mayhaps. I know it's still found in the default Ubuntu repositories.
You old fogeys are living in the past. All the cool kids use links now days. (According to google ubuntu calls it "links2," but most real distros just call it "links.")
 

Free

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#15
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You old fogeys are living in the past. All the cool kids use links now days. (According to google ubuntu calls it "links2," but most real distros just call it "links.")
HOW IS THAT EVEN A BIT CLEVER????!
 
Sep 19, 2018
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#16
That's not good. Um, any chance a package list update will help? (Or, am I missing the joke?)
There was no joke intended. However that was Microsoft Windows version of Ubuntu which doesn't seem to have it available. I just dual booted into Mint Cinnamon version 19 and lynx is there by default, no installation needed.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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#17
In open source, a monopoly is not a bad thing.
Disagree. When GCC basically killed all the competing open source compilers by embracing and extending the language, it meant there were no longer fast compilers available for embedded systems, and interesting designs like TENDRA with its explicitly portable intermediate code went by the wayside. There was a slowdown and stall in C compiler technology and C/C++ design until CLANG matured and brought competition back into the open source compiler market again. If there had been competing compilers we might have had a decent C++N in 2004 or 2005 instead of having to wait for C++11 to start seeing real design improvements again. I mean Boost was great, but GCC never bothered bringing the Boost improvements into the core until CLANG started nipping at their heels.
 
Sep 26, 2018
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#18
I'd argue that competition actually stifles open source. Taking sides merely injects a rift in what could otherwise be a more productive collaboration. Imagine the Mozilla, Chromium, and Presto communities working together to solve each other's issues.

So, when 'nobody uses [competitor] anymore' as a result of open source and community involvement, it's like seeing that good enough is no longer being good enough anymore.
Well, people using smartphones never really had much choice about using Webkit, considering the fact that Apple and Google forced them being preinstalled, and Apple disallows any other rendering engine still as today. Nor most would care anyway about the engine, they just want to get the stuff displayed right, and since Webkit/Blink becames the mobile de facto standard by market share, and mobile first is our reality in terms of web sites, it is the standard engine being used by the vast majority.

For the other part: competition is good, it brings up new ideas and concepts into working products.

For example, when GCC development became stagnant, EGCS was born, which was a fork, brought in new life, ideas and so on, so GCC went from stale to thriving - until both projects merged. Nowadays the competitor is LLVM.

Or when glibc-development became meh, eglibc came into existance.

Or just look at Sendmail, and what happened because of Qmail and later Postfix.

Or Apache and Nginx.

The examples are endless...
 
Last edited:
Sep 22, 2018
41
Morbidette
#19
Disagree. When GCC basically killed all the competing open source compilers by embracing and extending the language, it meant there were no longer fast compilers available for embedded systems, and interesting designs like TENDRA with its explicitly portable intermediate code went by the wayside. There was a slowdown and stall in C compiler technology and C/C++ design until CLANG matured and brought competition back into the open source compiler market again. If there had been competing compilers we might have had a decent C++N in 2004 or 2005 instead of having to wait for C++11 to start seeing real design improvements again. I mean Boost was great, but GCC never bothered bringing the Boost improvements into the core until CLANG started nipping at their heels.
Well, people using smartphones never really had much choice about using Webkit, considering the fact that Apple and Google forced them being preinstalled, and Apple disallows any other rendering engine still as today. Nor most would care anyway about the engine, they just want to get the stuff displayed right, and since Webkit/Blink becames the mobile de facto standard by market share, and mobile first is our reality in terms of web sites, it is the standard engine being used by the vast majority.

For the other part: competition is good, it brings up new ideas and concepts into working products.

For example, when GCC development became stagnant, EGCS was born, which was a fork, brought in new life, ideas and so on, so GCC went from stale to thriving - until both projects merged. Nowadays the competitor is LLVM.

Or when glibc-development became meh, eglibc came into existance.

Or just look at Sendmail, and what happened because of Qmail and later Postfix.

Or Apache and Nginx.

The examples are endless...
Take note that each example is stifled by an attempt to compete instead of collaborate... Open source and walled gardens are incompatible.

Competition brings up new ideas, sure, but gimps them once they're just barely good enough to squeeze out a competitor.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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#20
Take note that each example is stifled by an attempt to compete instead of collaborate...
You'll have to elaborate on that, do you mean the way GCC deliberately broke the C language with nonsense like the binary extension to the trinary "?:" operator? They drove massive changes in C during that period, but once they got a monopoly they stagnated. Then they lost the monopoly and there's been pretty fantastic progress from C++11 through C++18, and no success in squeezing out competitors.

Monopolies stagnate. Doesn't matter how you get there. It's only when you have competing implementations that you get progress.