Melania: define bully

Aribeth Zelin

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You know, this whole 'Democrats are supposed to be the nice ones' bothersome, and recently, I read an article about how Dems are seen as 'feminine'. Republicans get away with being loud, and nasty and well.... 'Trailer Park Alpha Males'. Meanwhile, Dems are supposed to be meek, and quiet, and 'ladylike'.

And F-that. And any Dems ought to consider this and say the same thing.

Now, rude, on the other hand well....
That's up to individuals
 
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Tranquility

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Semantics around the world "bullying" aren't really important to the bigger issue. No matter who is in office, a grand shitload of misogynistic things get said about the first lady. It is completely unproductive and ridiculous.
Gonna beat a dead horse (and this will be tl;dr anyway), but you would be pretty hard pressed to find many misogynistic things said about this first lady on VVO/SLU, let alone a shitload of misogynistic things. In addition, you generally won't find a lot of liberal-backed misogynistic things said about this first lady. Of course on the internet you can find pretty much anything if you try hard enough, so I am not going to say there is nothing misogynistic ever said about Melania by liberals. However, misogynistic rants are, by and large, a conservative MO.

You also said things like she is ONLY a gold digger and that it is not immoral to be a gold digger if both parties agree on her being a gold digger. I don't agree that she is only a gold digger, she has shown herself to be callous, shallow, and cruel (though that does fit in with the gold digger stereotype). As to the immoral aspect, sure, the agreement itself between both parties is not immoral, but there is a shit ton of immorality going on by her being a gold digger to someone who she knows is a narcissistic criminal. It is akin to knowingly using sweatshop labor to product merchandise or gaining profit from blood diamonds (that white colonist outfit she wore to Africa does fit the role of blood money heiress). When it comes to gold digging at the billionaire level, it is fair to expect that a big chunk of that money is obtained (at the very least) immorally, if not outright criminally. So it is a bold faced lie to say the billionaire gold digger is innocent when she knows where the money comes from. She accepted blood money, therefore her hands are stained.

The fact that she is a gold digger to Trump is grounds for criticism, which kills your whole aversion to the guilt by association issues. But on top of that, even if you remove the whole Trump association context, her actions are despicable. FFS, she literally wore a coat that said "I really don't care. Do U?" when going to visit detained children.

Do you think it is a coincidence that her "cause" is anti-bullying? What is her vile husband constantly blabbering about? Does: "This is the biggest witch hunt in history" ring any bells? And now she is claiming the same over-bloated bullshit as her asshole husband; that she is the most bullied person on the planet. Melenia and her "cause" is not an annoyance, as you put it. It is another facet of Trump's fascism and it is part of the bigger issue.
 

Jolene Benoir

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We don't often agree, Tranquility, and wow, you let loose a mouthful. In this case we do, with perhaps a few small amendments.

Tell us how you really feel.
 

Tranquility

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The whole Kavanaugh issue really got to me. It seems like the conservatives have found the weakness in our government; that it is not designed to repair itself from corruption. They have discovered that they can be outright corrupt and even if they are stopped, the damage is permanent and enduring. Steal a supreme court nomination? So what, it is a permanent position. Steal the presidency? So what, only a couple of the administration figureheads would be removed; the rest of the corrupt administration remains. Pick another supreme court judge candidate that is clearly unfit for the job? Too bad, ram it down the public's throat 'cause it is a permanent position. Consistently and documentably lie to the public on a daily basis as a top level politician running the government? So what, the public is now tone deaf to the atrocities. Combine that with the complacency and ignorance of your average american and things do not look bright for our future. Even if we elect a decent administration in a couple years (depressingly, I don't think impeachment will happen or do anything useful if it does miraculously happen) the damage done will resound for decades. Melania may be a small part of this shit show, but she definitely part of the problem.
 

Jolene Benoir

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The whole Kavanaugh issue really got to me. It seems like the conservatives have found the weakness in our government; that it is not designed to repair itself from corruption. They have discovered that they can be outright corrupt and even if they are stopped, the damage is permanent and enduring. Steal a supreme court nomination? So what, it is a permanent position. Steal the presidency? So what, only a couple of the administration figureheads would be removed; the rest of the corrupt administration remains. Pick another supreme court judge candidate that is clearly unfit for the job? Too bad, ram it down the public's throat 'cause it is a permanent position. Consistently and documentably lie to the public on a daily basis as a top level politician running the government? So what, the public is now tone deaf to the atrocities. Combine that with the complacency and ignorance of your average american and things do not look bright for our future. Even if we elect a decent administration in a couple years (depressingly, I don't think impeachment will happen or do anything useful if it does miraculously happen) the damage done will resound for decades. Melania may be a small part of this shit show, but she definitely part of the problem.
You go. Yes, yes and yes.
 

danielravennest

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All of the pity seeking is only calculated preparation for the upcoming divorce as soon as the Trump is Dumped off his throne of office.
I don't think she would divorce him first. Since Donald is 72, she can tough it out until he dies or reaches senility in order to get a full share of the inheritance for her son. Donald is petty enough to cut out both of them from his will if she leaves before then.
 
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Cristiano

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First lady's office calls out T.I. for 'disgusting' video depicting Melania Trump

T.I., whose real name is Clifford Harris, stars in the video as himself, seated at a fake Resolute Desk in a setting made to look like the Oval Office. Video footage of President Donald Trump taking off from the White House in Marine One plays, and shortly afterward, a woman enters the "Oval Office." The woman is wearing only a jacket, which reads: "I really don't care do u?," a clear nod to the controversial Zara jacket the first lady wore during a June trip to Texas.

The woman in the video, who has a clear resemblance to Melania Trump, then proceeds to strip off the jacket and dance atop the desk.
 

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Jolene Benoir

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I agree that is out of line. The jacket part was on the nose and within bounds, I think. Not so for the removal of the jacket. Perhaps it was a comment on her own past of removing her clothes on camera. Even still...too far.
 

Tranquility

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Which celebrity was it that first tried to get certain photos removed from the internet and all it served to do was bring a boatload of attention to those photos?

Glancing at a couple of T.I.'s videos will show you that he could care less about the message he sends about sexualizing women. He is no liberal champion. So I doubt the stripper lookalike was some kind of message about the hypocrisy of Melania having nude photoshoots (and receiving no backlash from the GOP about it). The video was a massive "FUCK YOU" to Kanye for selling out black people and the rap scene, and a massive "FUCK YOU" to the trump family and probably the GOP too. The megalomania that infests the brains of the GOP and the trumps couldn't let this insult be and they made this video a worldwide headline in an instant.

While liberals can't condone this video for obvious reasons, it does paint a harsh realistic picture of Melania and the trumps. Gold diggers literally reinforce and monopolize on how society and men sexualize women.
 

Kara Spengler

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Which celebrity was it that first tried to get certain photos removed from the internet and all it served to do was bring a boatload of attention to those photos?

Glancing at a couple of T.I.'s videos will show you that he could care less about the message he sends about sexualizing women. He is no liberal champion. So I doubt the stripper lookalike was some kind of message about the hypocrisy of Melania having nude photoshoots (and receiving no backlash from the GOP about it). The video was a massive "FUCK YOU" to Kanye for selling out black people and the rap scene, and a massive "FUCK YOU" to the trump family and probably the GOP too. The megalomania that infests the brains of the GOP and the trumps couldn't let this insult be and they made this video a worldwide headline in an instant.

While liberals can't condone this video for obvious reasons, it does paint a harsh realistic picture of Melania and the trumps. Gold diggers literally reinforce and monopolize on how society and men sexualize women.
That would be the Streisand Effect. I seem to remember she was trying to hide a beachhouse or something. Basically yelling "don't look at me".
 
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Jolene Benoir

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Which celebrity was it that first tried to get certain photos removed from the internet and all it served to do was bring a boatload of attention to those photos?

Glancing at a couple of T.I.'s videos will show you that he could care less about the message he sends about sexualizing women. He is no liberal champion. So I doubt the stripper lookalike was some kind of message about the hypocrisy of Melania having nude photoshoots (and receiving no backlash from the GOP about it). The video was a massive "FUCK YOU" to Kanye for selling out black people and the rap scene, and a massive "FUCK YOU" to the trump family and probably the GOP too. The megalomania that infests the brains of the GOP and the trumps couldn't let this insult be and they made this video a worldwide headline in an instant.

While liberals can't condone this video for obvious reasons, it does paint a harsh realistic picture of Melania and the trumps. Gold diggers literally reinforce and monopolize on how society and men sexualize women.
You've made a very good point about its intent. If, what you believe is likely true, then why wouldn't he go directly after Kanye, Trump or the GOP, rather than the easy pickings of Melania Trump? Had he made a provocative video featuring them, rather than her, I still don't see Trump letting it slide, because he lets no attack upon himself slide. The effect of it being made a worldwide headline would probably still be true.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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Whether or not she is being bullied simply isn't a falsifiable claim. So this discussion is a dead end.
Sorry, going nit-picky/semantic here.

The first definition that comes up for bully in google is:
"[to] use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants."

Which basically limits the number of people ABLE to 'bully' Melania to ONE cheetodusted pampered thug. Making her claim to be the 'most bullied person in the world' false, on top of which are people who are institutionally, categorically and/or demonstrably more bullied than she is. So yes, it is a falsifiable claim.

But do you know what is a falsifiable claim? I fear that attacks on the first lady make swing voters more sympathetic to the President. Attacks on her can actively hurt other efforts in addition to just time lost. That's what's really been on my mind since long before this thread started. It doesn't matter if people here are "right" if swing voters still take sympathy with her. People here aren't voting republican either way. I'm far more worried about how people on the fence see it. The "feels" of swing voters can defeat the facts on election day.
Screw anyone petty enough to support the coat hanger party JUST BECAUSE some nobodies on the internet got mouthy about the first lady's multiple hypocrisies. Passively or actively they're ALREADY Trump supporters anyway, and just looking to scapegoat someone else for the atrocities done by the person they decided not to vote against.
 

Kaimi Kyomoon

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I've been fascinated by Melania all along. Does she still have money from her modeling days or is she dependent on Donald for every little thing? eta: Thanks eku. What is Melania Worth?

The oligarch's, and DJT himself, have enough money to send goons to her parents' home to mess them up. Maybe she's on a short leash. Trump could definitely take Baron away from her.

We are led to believe she is super smart and knows a bunch of languages. But that might be exaggerated, like her college education. Maybe she's forced to watch Fox "News" all day or something. Maybe she really doesn't know what's going on.

Or maybe she just likes the Koch brothers' agenda.
 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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I don't mean to sound so aggressively argumentative. I'm just not able to sit by politely while someone argues for giving any of the modern tyrants "a pass" or sympathy or respect, or whatever.

Their side builds power by vilifying us. There is no downside to proving them right because they are already convinced. The only way forward is to be as much of a nuisance as possible. All of us should be escalating the hell out of their every malicious act, in their face at every opportunity. From the lowest trumpyfanboy to his glorified trophy wife.

It needs to get to the level where scoring cheap political points off of us is to much bother.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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See that’s an example of poor taste and going to far if you ask me. No one should depict any celebrity naked.

Where is my line? Oh I don’t know. A look alike at a soup kitchen wearing diamond and furs pronouncing “let them eat cupcakes” would not bother me as the social commentary could be viewed as being based on her own actions and opinions, and not sexualizing her.
I think the distinction is that the look-alike in the soup kitchen is attacking her (fairly or unfairly) for being as clueless about poverty as was Marie Antoinette supposed to me. The look alike stripping is simply trying to humiliate her as a woman.

It's perfectly OK to attack Jared Kushner for his apparent collusion with Russia and for apparently mixing his business dealings with his political role, but it's certainly not OK to attack him with anti-Semitic stereotypes. Similarly, it's perfectly OK to attack Melania Trump (or any other woman in the public eye) for stuff she does or says, but it's not OK, at least not to my mind, to attack her as a woman, and I do feel uncomfortable when people start going on about the nude photos, or calling her a bimbo or a gold-digger.
 

danielravennest

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The oligarch's, and DJT himself, have enough money to send goons to her parents' home to mess them up. Maybe she's on a short leash. Trump could definitely take Baron away from her.
Melania's parents are now US citizens (chain migration!). They've been living at Trump properties for a while so they can spend time with their grandson. Donnie doesn't have to send goons, they are already there.
 
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Jorus Xi

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Hey I'm going to simplify this entire thing and blow your mind. You cannot punch upwards and be a bully. Bullying is and always 100% been about the powerful and the powerless, and the dynamics those situations create.

The only way the masses can really bully Melania is if they use her being a woman against her. Calling her a horrible fucking person isn't bullying, it's a bare statement of facts.

Trump? Trump has probably NEVER been bullied unless it was by a senior member of his family.

Glad to be of help.
 

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I think the distinction is that the look-alike in the soup kitchen is attacking her (fairly or unfairly) for being as clueless about poverty as was Marie Antoinette supposed to me. The look alike stripping is simply trying to humiliate her as a woman.

It's perfectly OK to attack Jared Kushner for his apparent collusion with Russia and for apparently mixing his business dealings with his political role, but it's certainly not OK to attack him with anti-Semitic stereotypes. Similarly, it's perfectly OK to attack Melania Trump (or any other woman in the public eye) for stuff she does or says, but it's not OK, at least not to my mind, to attack her as a woman, and I do feel uncomfortable when people start going on about the nude photos, or calling her a bimbo or a gold-digger.
How do you think of her?

I'm also uncomfortable with the characterisation, but part of me thinks it's deserved. Her entire persona is built on her sexuality and passivity. She's a former fashion model. She told Howard Stern she'd be a "very traditional" First Lady. As First Lady, she wears almost exclusively high-end designers. She makes this face a lot.

It's problematic and it highlights the ways women and men are attacked differently: men for their intellect, prowess, courage, and so forth, and women in terms of their desirability, though perhaps that is changing as many jabs at have been at Trump for his appearance. That's not a good thing, of course. It would be great if people's appearance were not the subject of criticism at all. It's the easiest, cheapest, low blow one can make. I can see how that's easy with Melania because that's what she has cultivated and owes her success to. People are upset that she (and Trump) has a past no other person in the White House could get away with. It may be a long time before that resentment dies, but there are plenty of reasons to be critical of her right now in her role as First Lady. As Cristiano has pointed out, she is callous and very much a Trump.
 
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