Lindsay Graham Dead at 71

GoblinCampFollower

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It adds the context of how his closeted behavior impacted and harmed LGBT people. The statement made by the sex worker was incredibly powerful. Graham did actual harm to the very community he was a part of when it suited his whims and proclivities. That is the point. Now that the NDAs are not in force, a clearer picture of the harm he did is provided. Their voices are important.

There is an effort to sanitize his record. He was a fucking monster for many reasons, but actively working to harm the very people he was having sex with is a special level of it. That is the point.
Very well said. Silly little, overused words like "hypocrite" and "traitor" don't come close to the depth of his betrayal to the community. The more I think about his private and public actions against his own people the more angry I get. ...and I feel especially bad for the escorts who had to touch him to pay rent!
 

Beebo Brink

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It adds the context of how his closeted behavior impacted and harmed LGBT people.
It would have been more powerful if they'd stuck to the facts and not veered off into salacious speculation about the person who called in to 911. Their comments about it possibly being a sex worker on a zoom call were really distasteful. It was his fucking niece, you harpies.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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It would have been more powerful if they'd stuck to the facts and not veered off into salacious speculation about the person who called in to 911. Their comments about it possibly being a sex worker on a zoom call were really distasteful. It was his fucking niece, you harpies.
THANKS for pointing that out. I think it's important we stick to the facts as much as possible. ...don't need to lie when the truth of his actions were bad enough.
 
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Beebo Brink

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I'm not mourning Graham's death, but there's a difference between pointing out all of the ways in which he was hypocritical asshole versus just descending into sniggering gossipmongering. They were simpering over the possibility of more juicy scandal, which really undermines their credibility. If it's that easy for them to go off on flights of sheer imagination, it makes me wonder what they consider persuasive factual evidence.

All they had to say was "Graham was talking to someone just before he died. We don't know who that was yet." Easy peasy. Still leaves plenty to talk about.

Maybe a former sex worker was telling the truth about encounters with Graham, but these two clowns aren't going to be the best judge of that, apparently.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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There is a lot to be said about the natural human tendency to take a valid point and just get carried away with it.... The echo chamber effect makes it worse for sure. This place has a bit of that, but a lot of subreddits have it WAY worse because of the voting system. Easiest way to get upvoted on reddit is to just take the OP's point and push it a bit further! lol. Hell, I even think many left leaning subs are full of garbage for this reason. Even some of my favorite sub reddits exaggerate their valid points till they are wrong.

What I'm getting at is, I appreciate Beebo calling out the factual error.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Even some of my favorite sub reddits exaggerate their valid points till they are wrong.
And how much credence do you give to the comments of your average Reddit user or Twitter/X user? Someone expressing their opinion on a sub reddit is akin to someone mouthing off at the local bar. You may listen, but you don't expect it to be anything more than another person's opinion.

The standard for making a statement on a video or podcast is -- or at least damn well should be -- slightly higher, if you expect to be taken seriously. They've made it pretty clear that they are just random yahoos shooting off their mouth on the internet.
 

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It would have been more powerful if they'd stuck to the facts and not veered off into salacious speculation about the person who called in to 911. Their comments about it possibly being a sex worker on a zoom call were really distasteful. It was his fucking niece, you harpies.
Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan are anything but harpies. That is even more distasteful. At the time of the video, it was not known who made the call, and they did say it was probably a staffer. Given his proclivities, however, it was not out of the question. Again, the powerful part was the statement of the sex worker, and they are right, there have been more since that have come forward.

Don't live a life where your sex life requires an NDA while harming the very people you are paying. He can rot in hell, I am not going to clutch my pearls.
 

Innula Zenovka

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When I consider all the charges that can be leveled against Lindsay Graham -- his sycophantic enabling of Trump, despite his attempt to overthrow the 2020 election, his enthusiastic support for US engagement in Iran, his support for Netanyahu, and so on -- his relationships with sex workers, even if he required them to sign (voluntary, I would imagine) NDAs, doesn't really seem the most serious.
 

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When I consider all the charges that can be leveled against Lindsay Graham -- his sycophantic enabling of Trump, despite his attempt to overthrow the 2020 election, his enthusiastic support for US engagement in Iran, his support for Netanyahu, and so on -- his relationships with sex workers, even if he required them to sign (voluntary, I would imagine) NDAs, doesn't really seem the most serious.
Again, it isn’t about what he did in the bedroom, or even that he was a closet case. It is this:


His legislative voting record and actions against rights for LGBT people. I didn’t say it was the most serious, but it is particularly vile. Examples:

  • Marriage Equality: He was a co-sponsor of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and later supported a Federal Marriage Amendment to the Constitution. Though he stated he would respect the 2015 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide, he continued to voice opposition to the decision and voted against the 2022 Respect for Marriage Act.
  • Military Service: He voted against the 2010 repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, which forced gay, lesbian, and bisexual service members to hide their sexual orientation.
  • Employment Nondiscrimination: In 2013, he voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which aimed to prohibit workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.
  • Transgender Rights: Graham strongly opposed policies permitting transgender individuals to use shared facilities, such as locker rooms and bathrooms, that align with their gender identity. He also supported bans on transgender people serving in the military

So yes, I think actively working against equality for LGBT people is a big fucking deal. Your mileage may vary.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Again, it isn’t about what he did in the bedroom, or even that he was a closet case. It is this:


His legislative voting record and actions against rights for LGBT people. I didn’t say it was the most serious, but it is particularly vile. Examples:

  • Marriage Equality: He was a co-sponsor of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and later supported a Federal Marriage Amendment to the Constitution. Though he stated he would respect the 2015 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide, he continued to voice opposition to the decision and voted against the 2022 Respect for Marriage Act.
  • Military Service: He voted against the 2010 repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, which forced gay, lesbian, and bisexual service members to hide their sexual orientation.
  • Employment Nondiscrimination: In 2013, he voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which aimed to prohibit workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.
  • Transgender Rights: Graham strongly opposed policies permitting transgender individuals to use shared facilities, such as locker rooms and bathrooms, that align with their gender identity. He also supported bans on transgender people serving in the military
So yes, I think actively working against equality for LGBT people is a big fucking deal. Your mileage may vary.
Yes, but we knew all that already. How do sex workers and NDAs somehow make it worse? Or are you saying that his being gay comes as a particular surprise to anyone?

And, come to that, I think that his working against rights for LGBT people is bad enough in itself. I guess there's the added element of hypocrisy, but his whole political career since 2016 provided plenty of evidence for that.

Shocking evidence emerges that Lindsey Graham was an hypocritical shit -- hold the front page! In other news, startling revelations about bears and woods!
 
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Rose Karuna

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Honestly, I'm not sad to see any of these hypocritical bastards dying off. The only thing I worry about is which Army of God or Proud Boy will be elected to fill their spot? In America, we have somehow managed to make intelligence, critical thinking, kindness and empathy look like weakness instead of the foundation of our communities. It scares the hell out of me.
 

Cristiano

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Yes, but we knew all that already. How do sex workers and NDAs somehow make it worse? Or are you saying that his being gay comes as a particular surprise to anyone?

And, come to that, I think that his working against rights for LGBT people is bad enough in itself. I guess there's the added element of hypocrisy, but his whole political career since 2016 provided plenty of evidence for that.

Shocking evidence emerges that Lindsey Graham was an hypocritical shit -- hold the front page! In other news, startling revelations about bears and woods!
For fuck's sake, I give up.
 

Cristiano

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I wanted to add one thing. Transgender people often have to turn to sex work to survive, and do so at great personal risk to their safety as they are murdered at an alarmingly high rate. So yes, sex work and NDAs are a big fucking deal when it involves someone in a position of high power like Graham, who was also working to undermine the rights of those same people and demonize them, further increasing their risk.
 
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Since Hunter Biden is talking about this in part because Lindsey Graham died, I thought I'd post this here.



He doesn't really out anyone except for Graham, though he does take shots at certain GOP leaders. Lemon does seem to be enjoying himself here.
 

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When I consider all the charges that can be leveled against Lindsay Graham -- his sycophantic enabling of Trump, despite his attempt to overthrow the 2020 election, his enthusiastic support for US engagement in Iran, his support for Netanyahu, and so on -- his relationships with sex workers, even if he required them to sign (voluntary, I would imagine) NDAs, doesn't really seem the most serious.
Sure, yes, focus on his top ten list of horrible things he did to the country as a whole, or to the LGBTQ+ community... but reminding those who might have forgot or never knew about his flagrant hypocrisy, no matter how seemingly 'not the most serious', helps establish him as a degenerate hypocritical conservative.

One who was hardly a secret and tolerated/exploited by the GOP for his support on issues they knew were otherwise indefensible within a 'Free Society'.
 

Cristiano

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Since Hunter Biden is talking about this in part because Lindsey Graham died, I thought I'd post this here.



He doesn't really out anyone except for Graham, though he does take shots at certain GOP leaders. Lemon does seem to be enjoying himself here.
I freaking love Hunter Biden - his IDGAF era is a sight to behold.