Linden Lab Is Looking to Sell Off Sansar

Kara Spengler

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But I thought sansar was supposed to be the Next Big Thing.
 

Kara Spengler

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Now I do not feel so bad about them making it pc only ... and not all pcs at that.
 

Andi

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The lab is not broke, SL pulls in huge money each month, certain land barons would never settle for less and we'd be hearing them cry foul already as they would be some of the first to know and the first to spill the beans, Now this Sansar business, I think the lab should take one from own book, sell the product before it starts to sink them financally, shut it down in the mean time so you are not wasting cycles either, because even sitting idle, I learned aws/google costs 0.0003 cents per hour. I cant imagine that's not a hit in the pocket book at this point.
 
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Knutz Scorpio

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I tried Sansar I think three times, I could have come to like it except for the keyboard/mouse interface. It felt like someone was really put out about having to supply an interface for the non-VR peasants and just made the quickest most half-assed mods possible.

Can't say I'll miss Sansar, hope it doesn't have too much adverse effects on SL, and just maybe its passing will take the worst of the Lindens with it.
 
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Sid

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.... and just made the quickest most half-assed mods possible.
Must have been a long standing LL employee then.
You describe the standard LL procedure here.
 
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It’s sad, but I can’t imagine it’s surprising to anyone who’s been following Sansar’s development. It was too little too late, and other VR-capable platforms beat them to the punch.

I think VR is still going to be big, I think it’s time in the mainstream hasn’t even happened yet, and I think the big metaverse-VR game is still going to happen, it’s just a matter of who makes it first. Stuff like VRChat is popular but it’ll fall to the side once someone actually makes “Second Life, but in VR” properly.

It’s a shame it couldn’t have been Linden Lab themselves, but the moment they said that your inventory wouldn’t carry over from Second Life, I felt like it was going to be dead on arrival. 20 years of existing content would have given them exactly the leverage they’d have needed to compete.
 
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Sid

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They are more thinking in the USD 9.95 range.
So you will have to wait a few weeks I guess.
 
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Kara Spengler

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It’s sad, but I can’t imagine it’s surprising to anyone who’s been following Sansar’s development. It was too little too late, and other VR-capable platforms beat them to the punch.

I think VR is still going to be big, I think it’s time in the mainstream hasn’t even happened yet, and I think the big metaverse-VR game is still going to happen, it’s just a matter of who makes it first. Stuff like VRChat is popular but it’ll fall to the side once someone actually makes “Second Life, but in VR” properly.

It’s a shame it couldn’t have been Linden Lab themselves, but the moment they said that your inventory wouldn’t carry over from Second Life, I felt like it was going to be dead on arrival. 20 years of existing content would have given them exactly the leverage they’d have needed to compete.
There already are several vr chat applications so I never could figure out what sansar was supposed to accomplish. The best thing would be if they could migrate some stuff from sl or supported the same computers but they were clear that would not be the case.

I also like how apple is going to ar. Ironically something I muddled about before ar was really a thing.
 
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Adeon Writer

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There already are several vr chat applications so I never could figure out what sansar was supposed to accomplish.
Trust me, no one's doing it right yet. When someone does they'll take over.

You need in-world building, in-world avatar creation and customization, in-world scripting, basically to have a proper VR metaverse you need to be able to develop and create for it without taking the headset off or using a virtual desktop.

No one has done that yet.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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It’s a shame it couldn’t have been Linden Lab themselves, but the moment they said that your inventory wouldn’t carry over from Second Life, I felt like it was going to be dead on arrival. 20 years of existing content would have given them exactly the leverage they’d have needed to compete.
I don't think this is really possible.

Firstly from a practical POV; imagine LL having to track down every single person whoever created an object in Second Life and asking them permission to port their items into peoples' inventories on a completely different platform, immediately depriving them of the opportunity to port the stuff themselves and sell it? Then imagining having to screen peoples' inventories for all the objects made by creators who refused, or couldn't be contacted. Sure, LL could pull out the big legal wang and say "our TOS says we own all this stuff so we're going to port it whether you original creators of it like it or not", but yeah go ahead and guess the impact that will have on encouraging creators to move to Sansar.

And then there's so much stuff that can't be ported even in theory. System clothing and skins - not possible; different UV layouts can't be made "interchangeable" in that way; every single object would have to be individually remapped and completely new textures made. Shapes and animations - both useless, because the Sansar skeleton is different, and animations can't be "converted" between skeletons like that either. Scripts? Nope. So yeah basically just sounds and unscripted mesh objects are the only thing that could be ported even in theory, and people can already upload both of those things themselves if they have the rights to them.
 
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Fionalein

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I don't think this is really possible.

Firstly from a practical POV; imagine LL having to track down every single person whoever created an object in Second Life and asking them permission to port their items into peoples' inventories on a completely different platform, immediately depriving them of the opportunity to port the stuff themselves and sell it? Then imagining having to screen peoples' inventories for all the objects made by creators who refused, or couldn't be contacted. Sure, LL could pull out the big legal wang and say "our TOS says we own all this stuff so we're going to port it whether you original creators of it like it or not", but yeah go ahead and guess the impact that will have on encouraging creators to move to Sansar.

And then there's so much stuff that can't be ported even in theory. System clothing and skins - not possible; different UV layouts can't be made "interchangeable" in that way; every single object would have to be individually remapped and completely new textures made. Shapes and animations - both useless, because the Sansar skeleton is different, and animations can't be "converted" between skeletons like that either. Scripts? Nope. So yeah basically just sounds and unscripted mesh objects are the only thing that could be ported even in theory, and people can already upload both of those things themselves if they have the rights to them.
Wasn't that kind of stuff the fuzz the 2013 TOS changes were all about?
 

Adeon Writer

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I don't think this is really possible.

Firstly from a practical POV; imagine LL having to track down every single person whoever created an object in Second Life and asking them permission to port their items into peoples' inventories on a completely different platform, immediately depriving them of the opportunity to port the stuff themselves and sell it? Then imagining having to screen peoples' inventories for all the objects made by creators who refused, or couldn't be contacted. Sure, LL could pull out the big legal wang and say "our TOS says we own all this stuff so we're going to port it whether you original creators of it like it or not", but yeah go ahead and guess the impact that will have on encouraging creators to move to Sansar.

And then there's so much stuff that can't be ported even in theory. System clothing and skins - not possible; different UV layouts can't be made "interchangeable" in that way; every single object would have to be individually remapped and completely new textures made. Shapes and animations - both useless, because the Sansar skeleton is different, and animations can't be "converted" between skeletons like that either. Scripts? Nope. So yeah basically just sounds and unscripted mesh objects are the only thing that could be ported even in theory, and people can already upload both of those things themselves if they have the rights to them.
Only addressing rights here - they've got all the rights they need to do it with the UGC. They do it every time they upgrade the Second Life servers to a new version. It's no different. They can put it all on a different platform, as long as everyone automatically has their own account - as they did with Sansar - they are still listed as the creator of it all. They don't need to ask permission, they already got it when people agreed to the ToS.

Now, that doesn't mean they won't get angry blowback from it if they chose to call it something other than Second Life.
 

Kara Spengler

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I don't think this is really possible.

Firstly from a practical POV; imagine LL having to track down every single person whoever created an object in Second Life and asking them permission to port their items into peoples' inventories on a completely different platform, immediately depriving them of the opportunity to port the stuff themselves and sell it? Then imagining having to screen peoples' inventories for all the objects made by creators who refused, or couldn't be contacted. Sure, LL could pull out the big legal wang and say "our TOS says we own all this stuff so we're going to port it whether you original creators of it like it or not", but yeah go ahead and guess the impact that will have on encouraging creators to move to Sansar.

And then there's so much stuff that can't be ported even in theory. System clothing and skins - not possible; different UV layouts can't be made "interchangeable" in that way; every single object would have to be individually remapped and completely new textures made. Shapes and animations - both useless, because the Sansar skeleton is different, and animations can't be "converted" between skeletons like that either. Scripts? Nope. So yeah basically just sounds and unscripted mesh objects are the only thing that could be ported even in theory, and people can already upload both of those things themselves if they have the rights to them.
All they would need to do is say they have the technical ability to port whatever as long as they have permission, and the permission would apply to everything by that creator to avoid arguments. Then let the customers pressure the creators.

I am not sure how you would deal with creators no longer in sl. Probably default one way or the other if they have not heard anything by some date.
 

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The point was more if it's a replacement to SL (that is, "Old SL" is not a thing anymore), they don't really need permission at all. It's the same platform, just a major version update.

Ship of Theseus paradox. Doesn't matter if the new version is "Entirely different" with a new name. What matters is there's still only one ship.
 
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Sid

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I think it is more complicated. With such "major version update" they probably would chase away tons of oldbies, especially those who are still grumbling about the viewer upgrade just after 5 BC, where the pie disappeared.
I think the LL was smart enough not to put their only cash cow at risk by presenting Sansar as an Second Life Upgrade.

The only way to get to a SL Next Generation IMHO, is when the classic version (so the current one) stays open and playable as well.
The still active merchants from SL will make the step to the NG very quick, if they smell opportunities and if the transition is simple, without forcing them.
I think lots of merchants went to Sansar to have a peek. They just did not like what they saw: Idiotic loading times, very limited things to do and most of all goggles based.
Goggles will most likely not take of in mainstream.
Mainstream is about devices like the phones and tablets. They are taking over laptops and pc's.
Whomever wants to create a SL Next Generation, for a broader audience, needs to focus on those machines, not on goggles.