Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash

Dakota Tebaldi

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That's incredibly sad. Kobe and his young daughter were among 9 people who died. :(
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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I've seen some press pictures of the crash site and well okay I'm not a helicopter pilot, but it sure as heck didn't look like helicopter-weather to me.
 

Cristiano

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CNN made their front page black:

348
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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Yeah I know I've seen them do that after other notable deaths, though I can't think of any names off the top of my head that I'm willing to say for sure.
 

Cristiano

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That picture with his daughter is haunting.
 
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RodeejahUrquan

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Yeah, I actually first saw the story on a Youtube news channel. Crazy. I feel for the surviving family though. This must really be hard for them.
 
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Beebo Brink

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I'm getting this news through hearsay, so I can't post a source yet, but apparently the helicopter that Kobe's group was flying on was given "special permission" to fly in fog conditions that had grounded all other copters. Wtf?
 

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I'm getting this news through hearsay, so I can't post a source yet, but apparently the helicopter that Kobe's group was flying on was given "special permission" to fly in fog conditions that had grounded all other copters. Wtf?
 

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Here is a Youtube video with some information explaining a little about the
flight and crash.

 

Beebo Brink

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This paragraph really jumped out at me, even though it was buried at the very end of the article:
Los Angeles Police Department officials told The Times that even police helicopters generally didn't fly in the conditions seen on Sunday morning.
This sounds like a needless, avoidable tragedy.
 

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This paragraph really jumped out at me, even though it was buried at the very end of the article:

This sounds like a needless, avoidable tragedy.
Indeed. The pilot was certainly well-qualified; he was not only instrument rated for helicopters (rare enough) but a Certified Flight Instructor for helicopter instrument ratings. Yet, he seems to have flown the thing right into a mountain. Overconfidence?

Maybe someone with more knowledge could explain why he chose to make the flight VFR (visual flight rules) rather than IFR (instrument flight rules) and whether that would have made any difference.
 

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Indeed. The pilot was certainly well-qualified; he was not only instrument rated for helicopters (rare enough) but a Certified Flight Instructor for helicopter instrument ratings. Yet, he seems to have flown the thing right into a mountain. Overconfidence?

Maybe someone with more knowledge could explain why he chose to make the flight VFR (visual flight rules) rather than IFR (instrument flight rules) and whether that would have made any difference.
I am not qualified to comment on the specifics of helicopter flight, but I feel like there must be a story behind why they decided to fly anyway. Either there was some great need we haven't heard about yet, or this was extreme over confidence on behalf of the pilot.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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I'm getting this news through hearsay, so I can't post a source yet, but apparently the helicopter that Kobe's group was flying on was given "special permission" to fly in fog conditions that had grounded all other copters. Wtf?
Well....there's nuance to that.

Okay so when flying, whether it's an airplane or a helicopter or a blimp or whatever, there's two sets of "rules" - visual flight rules (VFR) and instrument flight rules (IFR). In VFR, pilots can pretty much go anywhere however they want as long as they stay out of strictly controlled parts of airspace (like around busy airports and stuff, if they want to go through those they must ask for clearance), and it's their own job to look out for other air traffic, to keep clear of ground obstacles and terrain, and most importantly to stay out of clouds. VFR has certain strict rules for how far you have to stay away from clouds - something like 500 feet beneath, 1,000 to 2,000 feet laterally, and you need I think 3 miles of general visibility, which takes into account haze and things like that.

IFR is far more strict. In IFR, the pilot isn't responsible for any of those things they're responsible for in VFR - they must file a specific route plan ahead of time, and air traffic control assigns them a specific altitude. ATC can change these things as needed during the flight, but pilots themselves cannot deviate from them unless ATC gives them permission. The point here is that ATC will always keep them high enough to avoid the ground and ground-based obstacles, and will give them routing instructions as necessary to avoid all the other traffic, which ATC is keeping track of by radar. Because ATC is doing all the "avoiding", IFR pilots can fly through and in clouds without worrying, but of course when they have no reference to the ground they have to keep control of their plane or helicopter by reference to the instruments.

The weather doesn't HAVE to be bad for you to file and fly IFR - passenger airline flights are practically always IFR flights, no matter how clear the weather - but the opposite isn't true; if the weather is bad enough then VFR flight isn't allowed at all period, and airports will not let VFR traffic take off or land.

But there is an exception called Special VFR, that lets you operate in worse-than-VFR weather without an IFR flight plan. In Special VFR the weather requirements are reduced - you only need 1 mile of visibility, and rather than having to stay a certain distance away from clouds, generally you now just have to stay out of them, and within constant sight of the ground. You can only fly Special VFR inside strictly controlled airspace. The idea behind Special VFR is usually that if you're intending to fly someplace where the weather is fine for VFR for most of the way but it just so happens that right around your takeoff airport the weather conditions aren't quite good enough, you can still leave - or on the other hand, if your whole flight has been free and clear but you get to the destination airport and the weather has gotten unexpectedly poor there, you can ask for the Special VFR clearance and still land.

Helicopters use Special VFR a LOT, when they're operating around cities. This makes some sense, since helicopters can safely fly lower, and slower, than airplanes generally do; and also because the kind of work helicopters do - not always just flying "point A to point B" - doesn't lend itself easily to flying an IFR flight plan. Anybody under the same circumstances can ask for a Special VFR clearance - so it's important to realize that despite the "special" in the name, Kobe Bryant's helicopter wasn't actually given "special treatment" - when police say their own helicopters were grounded what they mean is that it's their departmental policy to not fly in those weather conditions. They -could- ask for the same kind of clearance, if they wanted, and they would get it. But, I mean obviously, it's kind of smart for them not to.

That said, Kobe's helicopter was in fact just flying A to B this time, and it was a deluxe range model that was well capable of flying IFR; but for whatever reason the pilot chose not to do that. Maybe it was a time-constraint thing; they were flying to get to his daughter's basketball game, and filing IFR plans take some time, not to mention that in busy airspace like LA it might be a little while before ATC releases an aircraft to take-off that isn't part of the overall traffic "flow" into and out of the area, because they have to wait for an ideal moment to squeeze it in. Special VFR avoids all that, so it may have seemed more convenient in the moment. Pressure to meet a travel deadline very often leads pilots to make bad choices that have bad consequences. The helicopter pilot had the right to fly Special VFR, but he probably should not have.

Looking at the flight track of the helicopter, everything seems to have been going fine until it got close to its destination, when suddenly it looks like it tries to make a turnaround and climbs. The popular speculation right now is that the helicopter either encountered a bank of clouds that was suddenly lower than the rest, or overall visibility very quickly deteriorated, or else the terrain just kept rising enough in that area that there was no more room underneath the clouds to fly in anymore, so the pilot decided to climb through the clouds and come out on top. Which might have otherwise worked, except there were mountains in that area that the helicopter couldn't see because of the clouds, and maybe the helicopter didn't climb fast enough. It's also possible that the pilot became disoriented once in the clouds and lost control, and fell. The pilot WAS instrument rated, but it may have been a while since he'd actually flown in instrument conditions.

Since this was a deadly accident, it will be investigated by the NTSB, who will try to find out exactly what happened. Don't hold your breath waiting though, the NTSB has a mandatory minimum of 1 year for an accident investigation, with like a preliminary report after 6 months at the earliest.

 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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Not to mention the emotional pressure of trying to please a celebrity passenger.
That is true yeah, and it doesn't have to be a celebrity either. Non-celebrity passengers, and pushy wives/husbands and relatives, also like to put a lot of pressure on pilots and other related staff about getting places on time; I mean, wait around in any airport terminal when a flight has been delayed and just listen to people, lol. But, it's also not an excuse. The passengers have no idea what is safe and what isn't; the pilot is the one flying the thing and it's his job to say no. From what I've read, Kobe Bryant wasn't the kind of dick who would get in a pilot's face for telling him the weather was simply too bad to fly in.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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Here's a video of the helicopter's radar track, visualized using Google Earth. Worth a look I think!

 
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Beebo Brink

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Kobe Bryant’s pilot received clearance to fly in poor weather before crash

A couple of interesting points raised, but it's far too early, of course, to expect any answers. (Emphasis mine)

Guzzetti said it appears the weather worsened as the pilot tried to follow special visual flight rules (VFR), which meant he had to fly lower to keep clear of the clouds and be able to see the ground below. He said a question for investigators now will be, “Why did this flight occur when the weather was so poor?
Stephen Streiker, a flight instructor who lived in Los Angeles for eight years, said the helicopter flew into an area that rises quickly in elevation in about two miles. With low clouds, he said, a pilot would be squeezed into an ever-decreasing pocket of clear airspace.

The preliminary data suggests the helicopter, which crashed about 40 minutes after takeoff, briefly climbed to a top altitude of above 2,500 feet and then descended at a high speed before the crash.

Shortly before the helicopter crashed, the Flightradar24 data shows it veering sharply to the left.
John Cox, a veteran aviation safety consultant and crash investigator, said it’s too soon to know why that might have been.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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It sounds like once he got into the clouds he lost control.

This is what I've read - that this situation, "VFR flight into IMC", or instrument meteorological conditions, is one of the top killers overall of pilots, and THE top weather-related killer. It's because the sudden loss of all reference to the ground or the horizon, when you've been relying on them for the whole flight up until that point is very disorienting, even for instrument-rated pilots. Which is why it's kinda SOP for flights that have to be IFR at any point along them to be flown entirely in an IFR mode from beginning to end, so there's no "transition" to go through.

I've found some videos from the Air Safety Institute channel that cover some RL cases of fatal accidents, and there's certain kinds of trends you can notice in all of them.




That last one is freaking amazing-insane.
 
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