Jeffrey Epstein charged

Dakota Tebaldi

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But it's so damn convenient, isn't it? We know that rich people in high places were in danger of being revealed. They protected him once -- in a jaw-dropping miscarriage of justice -- but this time the case was so prominent, the glare of publicity so bright, that there wasn't going to be a fix. So the only possible way to derail the worst potential circumstances was to remove Epstein from the equation.
The only thing that's tripping me up as far as this goes, is I don't think killing Epstein actually stopped anything.

Oh well yeah, it stopped the trial against Epstein; but he wasn't going to snitch anyway - he pleaded not guilty and was NOT talking to the authorities at all about any kind of deal. It's not like he could be forced to say anything in court, either.

In fact, killing him might've made things worse for his co-conspirators. Remember, the cops raided all kinds of evidence from Epstein's house. Epstein's defense team would've been able to challenge that evidence and possibly be able to keep some of it from being used against Epstein during the investigation against him, and during his own trial. Guess who now stands in the way of any of that evidence now being used as the basis for further warrants or indictments? Absolutely nobody.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Yeah but remember too that Epstein was still at the "innocent until proven guilty" stage. Suicide watch is like an extremly invasive, degrading, and humiliating procedure. Epstein, being a rich dweeb, probably had a very expensive and competent lawyer, and - well this is just speculation on my part, but I kind of expect that his lawyer would've been doing everything possible to get Epstein taken off suicide watch if there wasn't like rock-solid proof that he NEEDED to be on it, besides "well it's a really big case". All kinds of really big cases go through that prison, from mafia to international terrorists to El Chapo, and I'd bet very few of those people ever got put on suicide watch.
Based on what I know of British prisons and what I read of American ones, to my mind for a man in Epstein's position to consent to leaving the most secure conditions available in a vulnerable prisoners' unit, no matter how unpalatable the regime there, for what I think is known as "general population" in the US, would be suicide in itself.
 
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Beebo Brink

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The only thing that's tripping me up as far as this goes, is I don't think killing Epstein actually stopped anything.
Just to set this discussion in the proper context, I don't believe that Epstein was killed outright. I question the circumstances that led to him being removed from suicide watch, a decision that has left a lot people equally perplexed.

So who would profit from allowing Epstein to off himself? Epstein himself is a prime suspect, and I wouldn't be totally shocked that he managed to manipulate circumstances to get out of the restrictive suicide prevention watch because it was, from all accounts, not comfortable.

Another possibility is that someone hoped that his death would, at the very least, dim the glare of publicity and slow down the pace of investigations. What did they have to lose if they were wrong? Desperate people will clutch at straws, and sometimes they do things that really don't end up helping. We have the sterling example of Donald Trump making his own situation worse by repeated attempts to escape the Russia allegations. Not everyone who meddles is a stable genius.

There's also the possibility that we'll simply never learn what else Epstein knew that someone else doesn't want us to know. Maybe there are skeevy incidents still hidden, unsuspected, and someone wanted to keep it that way.
 

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Another possibility, apparently: he's not really dead. It's a way to get him out of there where nobody is going to look for him. A fake death. Not everyone believes Seth Rich is really dead, either. Ahuh :)
 

Zaida Gearbox

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Is it wrong that I kind of want to have a party to celebrate that Jeffery Epstein is dead?

I only worked in Virginia prisons, but 1) a high profile inmate like Epstein would probably have never been allowed out into general population no matter how much he may have wanted it. Actually, he probably would have been housed at one of Virginia's notorious supermax prisons (HBO has a documentary about one of them). 2) I never noticed that pedophiles were particularly targeted for abuse beyond verbal abuse, but that may be because Virginia seems to be especially tough in regard to inmate management. But, dude, we had an inmate seriously try and start a chapter of NAMBLA once - which earned him a bus ticket to one of the supermaxes. So, not only was he not being persecuted by the other inmates - he was fucking proud of what he'd done. Same guy seriously tried to sue his victim for telling on him. 3) The only exception I can think of to pedophiles not being especially picked on would be if the pervert in question was especially young looking - other inmates would target them for being "punked," but that held true for pretty much all really young looking inmates.

I'm not saying there wasn't inmate on inmate violence where I worked - there was. I had the misfortune to be standing by the treatment department door one evening when one inmate cut another inmate's throat. Wanna know how far blood spurts when you cut the carotid? I know because I saw it. I just never noticed that pedophiles were any more likely to be on the receiving end than any other inmate - unless pedos are more likely to be snitches than other inmates. Because "snitches get stitches" is a real thing.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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Another possibility, apparently: he's not really dead. It's a way to get him out of there where nobody is going to look for him. A fake death. Not everyone believes Seth Rich is really dead, either. Ahuh :)

Two months from now a mysterious stranger with a fake moustache shows up at his private island. "Hello, my name is Mr. Nietspe. I was told this island is for sale?"
 
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Romana

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From everything I've read, Epstein was as big a narcissist as 45; he wouldn't have been able to face going to jail. His ego wouldn't permit it, and faced with the certainty, I think it's possible he'd have chosen to die.
If the first suicide attempt was really a botched murder attempt, and Epstein didn't really want to kill himself, the thing for him to do would have been to start talking right away, wouldn't it? And to insist on protection?
So if he was in fact suicidal, the simplest thing for anyone who wants him out of the way would be to get him taken off suicide watch, which is what happened.
Short of him leaving a suicude note, or an "in case something happens to me" video (had that ever happened in real life, or just TV?) we may never know.
 

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Honestly I'm just not looking forward to another 10 years of "HILLARY CLINTON HAD EPSTEIN ASSASSINATED". I mean it's been only a couple of years since the last time I saw one of those 911 trutherbots spamming my favorite forums, I was really starting to relax.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Honestly I'm just not looking forward to another 10 years of "HILLARY CLINTON HAD EPSTEIN ASSASSINATED". I mean it's been only a couple of years since the last time I saw one of those 911 trutherbots spamming my favorite forums, I was really starting to relax.
God alone knows what this will do to those unfortunates who've become part of the Q-Anon LARP universe -- it'll be like putting a chameleon on a tartan blanket, as they say where I'm from.
 

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Just to set this discussion in the proper context, I don't believe that Epstein was killed outright. I question the circumstances that led to him being removed from suicide watch, a decision that has left a lot people equally perplexed.
I agree, 100%. Basically I suspect that someone was paid a few grand to go take a smoke break, literally or figuratively. IE people were paid to look the other way.

They knew he wanted to kill himself, they wanted him silent, so they let him.

Occam's razor, all the way down.
 

Han Held

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The only thing that's tripping me up as far as this goes, is I don't think killing Epstein actually stopped anything.

Oh well yeah, it stopped the trial against Epstein; but he wasn't going to snitch anyway - he pleaded not guilty and was NOT talking to the authorities at all about any kind of deal. It's not like he could be forced to say anything in court, either.

In fact, killing him might've made things worse for his co-conspirators. Remember, the cops raided all kinds of evidence from Epstein's house. Epstein's defense team would've been able to challenge that evidence and possibly be able to keep some of it from being used against Epstein during the investigation against him, and during his own trial. Guess who now stands in the way of any of that evidence now being used as the basis for further warrants or indictments? Absolutely nobody.
I tend to disagree, but then I read this on rawstory;
But in reality, as a former federal prosecutor told Courthouse News reporter Adam Klasfeld, Epstein’s death could make it easier, not harder, to bring Epstein’s co-conspirators to justice.




The reason is that Epstein was the only person who had legal standing to sue the investigators trying to comb through the evidence in his mansions and penthouses, including videotapes of young girls and documents that may mention the names of people who were at his properties on specific dates. Had Epstein lived, and made it to trial, his attorneys could have filed motions to throw out that evidence. Now, however, no one has standing to put the brakes on the investigation.
My gut tells me that Epstein's death pretty much puts the kibosh on the whole thing; but it's possible I'm wrong, too.
 
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Romana

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Trump hasn't exactly stated anything directly about Epstein's death. Rather, he chose to retweet this:


It begins.
Odd, I can't find that retweet in his timeline. Did someone think better of it and undo the retweet?
 

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Odd, I can't find that retweet in his timeline. Did someone think better of it and undo the retweet?
It's still there, I think. I still see it:

 

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I tend to disagree, but then I read this on rawstory;
My gut tells me that Epstein's death pretty much puts the kibosh on the whole thing; but it's possible I'm wrong, too.
Well, it’s not like he can claim the 5th amendment anymore can he?
 
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