Israel Halts Electricity Supply To Gaza

Lexxi

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Saw this on Twitter:
But that's just a picture of a newspaper. So I looked. And found this:

Israel should be sending Palestinian Gazans fleeing the fighting to refugee camps in Lebanon, with the entire Gaza Strip being emptied and leveled and turned into a museum like the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland, Metula Council head David Azoulai told 103FM.
Other than learning that it was founded in 1932 as The Palestine Post, I do not know The Jerusalem Post.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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An op ed in "The Jerusalem Post" titled: "Israel's big political earthquake is coming after Hamas war - analysis".

Israel is on the verge of a political earthquake.

Like all earthquakes, you don’t know exactly how it will unfold or when it will hit, but you know it’s coming. The colossal catastrophe of October 7 has made a tectonic shift in the country’s political landscape all but certain.

Common sense dictates this conclusion, historical precedent affirms it, and the polls show its inevitability.

One need not be a brilliant sociologist to feel that something dramatic has changed in Israeli society. The Israel of December 20 is not the Israel of October 6 – everyone realizes that. Its self-confidence has been hit, its sense of security has been dented, and its trust in its political and military leaders has been shattered.

The country is hurting, worried, and angry. There is a burning hatred toward Hamas, and there is seething anger toward the government – how could this have happened? How could Israel have failed so miserably?

One indication of the whirling anger is the reluctance of government ministers and Knesset members to make public appearances. There are not a lot of high-profile politicians visiting the wounded in hospitals or even attending funerals these days – common courtesies in the past – because of concern about the reactions they will meet.

It will be impossible for the government – for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – to ignore this anger that will inevitably erupt into a flood of protests and demonstrations when the intensity of the fighting in Gaza wanes and the reservists return from Gaza.

Netanyahu was asked at one of his recent press conferences whether he would step down after the war. He answered, as he does when asked these days any question about politics, that he is now preoccupied with waging the war, and not thinking about politics. And then he added that he received a mandate from the public to govern.

That mandate was from pre-October 7, Israel. Post-October 7, Israel will demand a chance to repeal or reaffirm that mandate.

 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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As seen in an well visited tattoo shop in SL.



Translation:

Palestine in heart
Oh God, we entrust you to Gaza and its people.
Oh God, grant them victory and make their feet firm.
Oh God, be their supporter and helper.
Oh God, direct their shot and support them.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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What in the actual fuck is going on? The Gaza situation is out of control, and the IDF seems to just be indiscriminately killing at this point.

Pope speaks out after IDF sniper kills two women inside Gaza church, per Catholic authorities
Hearing about some of these recent screw ups breaks my heart. I want to sympathize with them so badly after October 7th but they are really fucking this up... Nothing will ever redeem Hamas, but I just don't know what else to say.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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The saddest thing about this is all that even no Muslimic state wanted the Palestines from Gaza as refugees. Egypt does not want them, because Hamas is a branch of the Muslimic brotherhood, so they do not want to have more fanatics in their country as are already there.

And even sadder is Jordan, because most of the population there are palestines.

So this means that these muslimic countries consider the a good chunk of the civilian Gaza population as fanatic.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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The saddest thing about this is all that even no Muslimic state wanted the Palestines from Gaza as refugees. Egypt does not want them, because Hamas is a branch of the Muslimic brotherhood, so they do not want to have more fanatics in their country as are already there.

And even sadder is Jordan, because most of the population there are palestines.

So this means that these muslimic countries consider the a good chunk of the civilian Gaza population as fanatic.
YEP, I've heard a lot about this.... they will gladly condemn Israel, who they hate, but they don't really give a crap about the Palestinians. Hamas also gets money from all over the Middle East to destroy Israel, not help Palestinians.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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YEP, I've heard a lot about this.... they will gladly condemn Israel, who they hate, but they don't really give a crap about the Palestinians. Hamas also gets money from all over the Middle East to destroy Israel, not help Palestinians.
Well this was so in the past, yes. But a lot shifted when Hussein captured Kuwait in 1990, and the PLO back then under Jassir Arafat openly supported that move. This was not well received in many countries on the Arabien peninsula, and is still not today.

Truth is also that Egypt and Jordan has made peace treaties with Israel now decades ago. Furthermore many Arabian countries just got tired about the Palestines being so stuck in the past, that they decided to normalise their relationships with Israel regardless what the Palestines might say.

In 2020 under Trump's administration the UAE and Bahrain entered that club as well. The most important country though, Saudi Arabia, was still in the diplomatic paperwork of that when Hamas attacked. The Palestines didn't play a big role in those talks, either. Many do believe that one of the reasons for Hamas' attacks is that they wanted to put the Palestines back on the table, showing no peace without honoring us.

And this is what Trump got for his achievements, an own settlement being named after him.



Did Hamas' plan work out? It depends. Saudi Arabia openly stated that this process is at a halt for the moment, but not terminated. So probably not so much.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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Oh, you're still lurking! That article makes some valid points as Israel has had some titanic fuckups, but she also makes her biases and irrational leaps clear. She definitely seems to suffer from some "America Bad!" brain rot. Gaza is a small, weak region that is easy to sympathize with, but Chinese and Russian aggression are largely because they are ALSO imperial powers. In particular, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is impossible to justify. Biden didn't undermine those peace talks, Russia hasn't offered anything acceptable (such as just leaving).

It would also be very easy to make a long list of Hamas' war crimes that are also impossible to justify based on Israel being mean....

She also has some big gaps in her reasoning by acting like confusion in the fog of war is evidence Israel lied. The fact that a third party couldn't find evidence in a warzone is not evidence Israel lied about something.

Israel has fucked up a lot... and there are far right hard liners in Israel who are terrible people, but her take is still very one sided.
 

Plurabelle Laszlo

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I am not behind Israel's military strategy if there is any, and Netanyahu and his government are criminals and/or religious fanatics and right wing extremists.

But it really baffles me when people completely forget to even mention the responsibility of Hamas for their own doings.

This is from another article of the same author: "... the damage Hamas inflicted on October 7 was completely avoidable, and was only able to occur due to the negligence and/or malfeasance of Israeli intelligence and military forces. If measures were taken to simply ensure that such colossal errors never again occur, then the abusive status quo of defending Israelis with the Iron Dome and border enforcement would work as fine post-October 7 as it did pre-. "

Apparently the massacre was something like a natural disaster, and only Israel is responsible for not stopping it. And ... "The abusive status quo of defending Israelis with the Iron Dome" ... yeah, sure, it's very abusive to shield your nation from constant rocket fire.

And I find it scary and deeply unsettling how cold-hearted those people are when it comes to the victims of this really well-documented (not just by allegedly "unreliable" Jewish sources, but also by the murderers themselves), cruel, misogynist and antisemitic pogrom. Where, by the way, in case anyone forgot, babies were killed, too. I even feel a spark of sadness for the killers: A lost generation of young men was brainwashed into believing that becoming a matyr is a wonderful thing, and that killing Jews in the most brutal ways is somehow making it even more glorious. Soldiers will stop killing when you order them to stop. These men, having gone through the indoctrination of an Islamist death cult, most likely will only stop when they managed to kill themselves - or if you stop them by lethal force.

Yes, every dead child is one dead child too many. The war (that was provoked and expected by Hamas) follows the logic we know from that region - kill those who want to kill you; kill them first, no matter the costs. And under the current regime it was to be expected that civilian victims - and to a certain extent even the hostages - would be sacrificed for the goal to prove that Israel is not defenseless, which is not just embarassing for government and military, but which is objectively a severe risk for the entire nation. The reason why Israel is still on the world map, surrounded by hostile neighbors, is not that their excellent diplomacy skills or economical dependencies, but because the impressive reputation of their army, their weaponry and their secret services.

It also baffles and shocks me, when people apparently think that Hamas is a liberation front for the Palestinian people. The Palestinian opposition might disagree - those who are still alive and haven't been thrown from roofs or otherwise have been killed by Hamas . Ask Palestinian queers who'd rather flee to Israel (when they still could) than stay in Gaza. Ask Gazan feminists. And - Hamas is not shy about their goals, it is clearly written and said, they are very open about wanting Israel destroyed, wanting to kill Jews worldwide, wanting to install an Islamist regime. They also openly say that they don't care about the number of dead Palestinians, and that they won't offer them shelter because - caring for refugees is the UN's responsibility.

Oct 7 was not like the first and not even like the second Intifada, where Palestinians indeed were fighting (with surely questionable methods, too) for political freedom and justice. It was a brutal, Islamist attack, meant to interrupt any possible peace progress (I am sure this is the reason why they mainly attacked moderate pro-Palestinian Israelis) , meant to provoke a brutal Israelian response that would polarize the world and discredit Israel completely in the opinion of other Arabic states. And lastly push global antisemitism. Tragically it really worked so far. Israel still has allies, but they already start to shy away. Worldwide, Jews fear for their safety and their lives - and in Israel they do, too. Radicalising Muslims will also cause a worldwide backlash - antiislamic and racist movements willl polarize Western societies even further.

One sided shallow opinion pieces like the one quoted play into this development. This conflict is so multi-layered and complex, there is not one aggressor and one victim. There are so many international players that rarely get mentioned, either. Anyone remembering Iran? There is a reason why some Iranian women-rights activists have expressed solidarity with Israel... Any possible peace process has been sabotaged since the very beginning - from the inside and even more from the outside. I have no idea how these two deeply traumatized nations will ever come to peace (not that anyone would listen if I had an idea). It's heartbreaking and terrifying.

I really didn't want to post about this topic on the internet, it's hard enough to debate in real life. But yeah, here it is. The deafening silence when this really unprecedented massacre happened (even here on this forum, where the first thread was this one, about Israel's reaction) has hit me hard. I have questioned friendships and alliances over this, and still do. I will continue to refuse "taking sides", or at least any other side than the one of the victims regardless of their religion or ethnicity.
 
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GoblinCampFollower

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I am not behind Israel's military strategy if there is any, and Netanyahu and his government are criminals and/or religious fanatics and right wing extremists.

But it really baffles me when people completely forget to even mention the responsibility of Hamas for their own doings.

This is from another article of the same author: "... the damage Hamas inflicted on October 7 was completely avoidable, and was only able to occur due to the negligence and/or malfeasance of Israeli intelligence and military forces. If measures were taken to simply ensure that such colossal errors never again occur, then the abusive status quo of defending Israelis with the Iron Dome and border enforcement would work as fine post-October 7 as it did pre-. "

Apparently the massacre was something like a natural disaster, and only Israel is responsible for not stopping it. And ... "The abusive status quo of defending Israelis with the Iron Dome" ... yeah, sure, it's very abusive to shield your nation from constant rocket fire.
It's the racism of lowered expectations. Israel is evil but poor Hamas knows not what they do!
 

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It was the shooting of Asma Mughayar that swept away any lingering doubts I had about how it is the Israeli army kills so many Palestinian children and civilians.

Asma (16) and her younger brother, Ahmad, were collecting laundry from the roof of their home in the south of the Gaza Strip in May last year when they were felled by an Israeli army sniper. Neither child was armed or threatening the soldier, who fired unseen through a hole punched in the wall of a neighbouring block of flats.

The army said the two were blown up by a Palestinian bomb planted to kill soldiers. The corpses offered a different account. In Rafah’s morgue, Asma lay with a single bullet hole through her temple; her 13-year-old brother had a lone shot to his forehead. There were no other injuries, certainly none consistent with a blast.
Confronted with this, the army changed its account and claimed the pair were killed by a Palestinian, though there was persuasive evidence pointing to the Israeli sniper’s nest. What the military did not do was ask its soldiers why they gave a false account of the deaths or speak to the children’s parents or any other witnesses.

When reporters pressed the issue, the army promised a full investigation, but a few weeks later it was quietly dropped. This has become the norm in a military that appears to value protecting itself from accountability more than living up to its claim to be the ”most moral army in the world”.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Let's not forget one thing ever in general, not talking about this specific incident right now: Hamas really likes to use civilians as human shields. Also they use on purpose civilian infrastructure like schools, hospitals, kindergardens, apartment blocks etc. as firing base of their weaponry.

So many of these victims - not all - are a result of that strategy, despite them being normally warned upfront by Israel an attack will happen the next day.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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As to distrusting information about Gaza (or anywhere else), I'd suggest it's safest to take one's information from reputable news sources -- the mainstream media, in other words, as opposed to unsourced videos on social media -- and to try to resist the natural impulse to accept or reject reports depending on how much they confirm (or don't) our pre-existing views.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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When it comes to safe information, you really can't beat information that is funded by and serves the interests of the billionaire class and corporate interests.
They've never really led us astray. They've never lied about important things like wars, public health, and thousands and thousands of of dead people.

We must resist the urge to believe our eyes, and embrace that which is carefully constructed by power. That is why we are all so damned smart. Group hug.