How COVID-19 is affecting society

Innula Zenovka

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People of color shouldn’t be treated equally in COVID-19 vaccine trials, ER doctor says: They should be over-represented

ETA: Reading Choo's comments, it is obviously incumbent on the people running the trials to go the extra mile to get participation. They must use resources like HBCU's and whatever else to educate and encourage participation. I'm sure the issues involved have not been on the radar of the people who are running the trials. It also seems not to have been on the radar of some people who run HBCU's.

If big pharma has had any focus on groups in the general population, it has been on the people treating COVID-19 patients. I think I have commented on VVO previously that when a vaccine does become available, minorities should have highest priority in getting vaccinated, not nurses, doctors and so forth. I realize that idea is provocative, but, the latter are protected by PPE and are at less risk of contracting/spreading the disease already. If there is a shortage of PPE (no news of one now that I know of) that would change the situation.
One of the many reasons, as I understand it, most places regard vaccinating health care workers as the top priority is that they don't want health care staff to keep on having to self-isolate for 10 or 14 days whenever it's thought they might be infectious, since while they're self-isolating they can't care for patients.
 

Sovereignty

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One of the many reasons, as I understand it, most places regard vaccinating health care workers as the top priority is that they don't want health care staff to keep on having to self-isolate for 10 or 14 days whenever it's thought they might be infectious, since while they're self-isolating they can't care for patients.
I've also found out that PPE shortages are still occuring, just not being covered by major news media (again as far as I know).


 
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I've also found out that PPE shortages are still occuring, just not being covered by major news media (again as far as I know).



It makes for a good photo op. A cleanable plastic visor is what is recommended by the CDC but that wouldn't look as nice.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I've also found out that PPE shortages are still occuring, just not being covered by major news media (again as far as I know).


Also, there are degrees of risk and many health care workers, by the nature of their work, are far more exposed to the virus than are the rest of us, since they spend so much time in such close contact with people are, or are highly likely to be, highly infectious.

Yes, working in a store or driving an Uber brings you into close contact with many people who may be infectious but working in an hospital or as a paramedic brings you into far closer contact, for much longer, with many people, some of whom most certainly are infectious, and while PPE mitigates the risk, sadly it does not remove it.

Similarly, it seems to me that, as a patient suffering from something other than Covid-19, I'm at far greater risk of infection from a healthcare worker who is carrying the virus than I am from anyone in the supermarket, because we're going to be in far closer contact.

For everyone's sake -- patients' as well as health care staff -- the authorities need to take every care to protect healthcare workers from infection.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Any response to my other posts on this contretemps?
I finally nailed what this reminds me of: tone arguments. Black people bring up issues of racism and then White people get huffy about the "tone" of the discussion, and how if the tone was more respectful then they would respond, but not until the tone improves. So the discussion becomes about them and their hurt feelings rather than about the racism itself.
 

Jolene Benoir

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Because, ultimately, Trump consider himself the expert on everything, every subject and if he thinks that you crossed him, whether actual or not, he knows only how to be a bulldog.
 
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Kamilah Hauptmann

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I finally nailed what this reminds me of: tone arguments. Black people bring up issues of racism and then White people get huffy about the "tone" of the discussion, and how if the tone was more respectful then they would respond, but not until the tone improves. So the discussion becomes about them and their hurt feelings rather than about the racism itself.
Apropos of nothing: The magical thinking of guys who love logic
 

Sovereignty

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I finally nailed what this reminds me of: tone arguments. Black people bring up issues of racism and then White people get huffy about the "tone" of the discussion, and how if the tone was more respectful then they would respond, but not until the tone improves. So the discussion becomes about them and their hurt feelings rather than about the racism itself.
Interesting idea.

Now if only the people running the two HBCU's had not been surprised by the backlash they got.
They were stunned.
I don't see how you got to this[*] being a white people problem. Some background information on your sources might be helpful here. ETA That does sound condescending, but I really don't have a clue. Did you read about POC distrusting medical researchers somewhere ahead of time--distrust to the point of acting against their best interests? On what basis was this identified as a white people problem? Give me some context.

Also interesting that you do not deny implying racism on my part. I do not know why you think it is okay here to be that insulting. Did you first read the articles I linked to? Were you aware that the leaders of HBCU's were not prepared for the response they got?

ETA [*] "this" being the original issue, not the tone argument sideline.
 
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Sovereignty

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:unsure: That sound I just heard.... Like a whoosh....up high...
From the Apropos Nothing post:
Say the magic words enough times, and the spell will be cast over your audience.
What is the magic spell you are trying to cast?

ETA I wouldn't spend so much time arguing with someone [and their surrogates that] I didn't respect.
 
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Isabeau

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Overall deaths in the United States this year are more than 85% higher than in places such as Germany, Israel and Denmark after adjusting for population size. Deaths in the U.S. are 29% higher than even in Sweden, "which ignored everything for so long," Emanuel says. Sweden made a point of refusing to order strict social restrictions and never went in to a full lockdown. "We have 29% more mortality than we should have if we'd followed Sweden's path and Sweden virtually did nothing."

Even looking just at confirmed COVID-19 deaths, the number of people dying since May 10 — again after adjusting for population size — is on average 50% higher than every other country in the study. In addition, the rate people are dying in the U.S. has stayed far above everywhere else. Emanuel says the current elevated mortality rates are important because they eliminate the chaotic early months of the pandemic when testing, treatment and reporting varied dramatically around the globe.

...
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Black Americans' misgivings about participating in vaccine tests shouldn't come as any great surprise -- it was flagged up in general news media, along with the reasons why they're mistrustful of a white-dominated medical establishment, right back at the start of the pandemic as a potential issue:



Those are just two examples Google found for me with little difficulty, and I'm sure I remember reading about at the time in other publications, too.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Black Americans' misgivings about participating in vaccine tests shouldn't come as any great surprise
Side note: There was a similar response in Africa regarding ebola aid. Being: "what are you colonialist assholes trying to pull this time?" There's some centuries of distrust there too.
 

Beebo Brink

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ETA I wouldn't spend so much time arguing with someone [and their surrogates that] I didn't respect.
If this is sincere, then you deserve an honest answer. Setting flippancy aside, I will be more direct.

Whatever discussion or argument you want to have with me, I'm not interested in joining. From what I have observed of your posts, especially the recent ones, you are very literal in your interpretations and quick to take offense. This is not intended as disparagement, just a description of what I see. I don't find interactions of that kind rewarding or enjoyable. I don't know you well enough to banter successfully, and I found your attempts to "goad" me to reply unpleasant, although I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't intend them as such.
 
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