How COVID-19 is affecting society

Kara Spengler

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She seems to think businesses will be threatened by maybe losing the business of one customer? They are all too aware how much business they will lose (and probably fined or even have their license pulled in some cities) if they do NOT require it.
 

Sid

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Even if they're not singing, it's still not safe


That's 40 infections after one single church service in Germany, where the lock-down is still very much in force in other respects, and the authorities take the crisis seriously and are doing a far, far better job of protecting their citizens than is the US.
That is what will happen in the time from loosening the lock down until the virus is mastered completely (medication, vaccine or a lot of luck that it disappears). Moving back and forth.
A complete lockdown until then is not realistic economically and socially.
I mean, it cost our government 55 billion euro in the last few weeks alone to try to avoid job losses and for the next two months there will be another 45 billion needed. And then there is the extra costs of healthcare etc.
We will need to try to go to a more normal life as much as possible. A total collapse of economy is no an desirable outcome.
And the statistics look good. ICU's are back to normal capacity numbers, general death rates are back to almost normal, the number of new hospitalizations with covid-19 are low.
But coming out of the lock down will most likely be two/three steps ahead, one/two back.
Most important will be that people stay focused on the symptoms, restrictions and safety precausions.
 

Innula Zenovka

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That is what will happen in the time from loosening the lock down until the virus is mastered completely (medication, vaccine or a lot of luck that it disappears). Moving back and forth.
A complete lockdown until then is not realistic economically and socially.
I mean, it cost our government 55 billion euro in the last few weeks alone to try to avoid job losses and for the next two months there will be another 45 billion needed. And then there is the extra costs of healthcare etc.
We will need to try to go to a more normal life as much as possible. A total collapse of economy is no an desirable outcome.
And the statistics look good. ICU's are back to normal capacity numbers, general death rates are back to almost normal, the number of new hospitalizations with covid-19 are low.
But coming out of the lock down will most likely be two/three steps ahead, one/two back.
Most important will be that people stay focused on the symptoms, restrictions and safety precausions.
Yes, but I wanted to illustrate the effects of opening churches, even without singing -- one church in Germany, where they've been doing mass testing and contact tracing, leads to 40 cases, and one hospitalisation, and in Germany, they've got a competent and responsible federal government.

I don't want to think about what's going to happen in the US.

As to the economy, the British government, with the Bank of England's backing, is paying for the crisis by borrowing, and plans to pay it back over time by growth (that is, selling long-term debt).

We can do that because we've never been part of the Euro, though -- how are you guys handling it? I've seen reports that there have been big fights over it, with The Netherlands taking a particularly firm line, and a major court case in Germany, but I've not been following it.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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I don't want to think about what's going to happen in the US.
We don't have to think about it, because we know what happened in march to a chuch choir in Mount Vernon, Washington: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6919e6-H.pdf

One infected person infected 52 people of a church choir, three became severely ill and two died.

Regarding your major court case: the ECB has been buying government bonds since years. This is one of the view mechanisms stabilising the EU's economy - the so called Public Sector Purchase Programme.

Now the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany in Karlsruhe had to judge if this is in line with the German constitution, or not. They ruled that this is partially against the German constitution. The judges did not forbid that the ECB was buying government bonds, but that they have not really checked them and argued why they bought them. They demanded now that the ECB has to deliver such things, otherwise the German Federal Bank has to withdraw their participation at that programme.

The Federal government has a certain time frame to implement the verdict, roughly one year. Some applaude the verdict, while others argue that the Bundesverfassungsgericht overstepped their competence, since the European Court of Justice earlier ruled that those measures are legal, and this is the higher ranking court.

 
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Romana

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She seems to think businesses will be threatened by maybe losing the business of one customer? They are all too aware how much business they will lose (and probably fined or even have their license pulled in some cities) if they do NOT require it.
Well, the gun-toting crazy in that last tweet is a real-estate agent. I’m glad I don’t live in her state or anywhere she might be, selling houses. Wondering if her potential clients might feel the same? Unless she gets all her business from fellow would -be shooters. Even more reason to be glad I don’t live there,
 

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  • The researchers analyzed over 200 million tweets discussing COVID-19 and found that roughly half the accounts were likely bots.
  • They identified the bots by looking for accounts that tweeted more frequently than humanly possible or whose location appeared to rapidly switch among different countries.
 

Sid

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We can do that because we've never been part of the Euro, though -- how are you guys handling it? I've seen reports that there have been big fights over it, with The Netherlands taking a particularly firm line, and a major court case in Germany, but I've not been following it.
NL had its household in good shape before the crisis. We were one of the countries that could get loans (bonds) with negative interest. So the Dutch state was in fact payed to borrow money from the financial markets. That is one of the reasons that NL isn't too keen (so far) to take (shared) responsibility for the loans from countries who never bothered to much about their financial state.

Last week France and Germany have launched a new plan to finance the crisis. They have consulted with several PM's like the ones from NL and Italy before the launch, so I expect that that plan will make it on the next summit in Brussels.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Meanwhile, in the UK, the government is coming under increasing criticism for its handling of the crisis, and Conservative MPs are now remembering why they weren't anywhere near as enthusiastic supporters of Boris for PM as were the members of the Conservative Party in the country.

Already the government has been forced, despite its landslide majority, into two embarrassing policy reversals (exempting NHS workers from visa NHS surcharges, Huawei involvement in 5-G infrastructure) and now we're seeing coverage like this (details don't matter particularly, but this how the tory press were treating Theresa May in 2018)

 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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Karen Video's x3.
OMFG.

"Ma'am, we're enforcing heightened security measures. Our business received warnings that domestic terrorists intend to infiltrate and contaminate our employees and customers with the contagious and deadly biological agent known as Covid-19.

Your demands to be admitted without a mask fits the profile of these terrorists and we've notified the authorities to follow up.

While we wait for them to arrive, would you like us to fetch and ring up a few items for you? We certainly wouldn't want to deny you service while protecting ourselves and our customers from the clear and present danger you wish to expose us to."


ffs, the whole point of having/using a credit card is so that if there's suspicious charges you can spot them easily, -fight- them and get your credit back.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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Romana

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My knee jerk reaction was a sarcastic "No Duh Cptn Obvious!" ... but upon further thought, I found myself surprised that it's -only- half.
They're probably the same accounts that are swarming the tweets about this article:


with the same three "gotchas"
1) "Now do flu deaths"
2) "Cuomo and DeBlasio are responsible for half of those"
3) search for any little inaccuracy that resulted from the Times' obituary search and go "Aha!"
 
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Lexxi

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They're probably the same accounts that are swarming the tweets about this article:


with the same three "gotchas"
1) "Now do flu deaths"
2) "Cuomo and DeBlasio are responsible for half of those"
3) search for any little inaccuracy that resulted from the Times' obituary search and go "Aha!"
I was curious so I looked some things up. Then looked again at what the claims might be regarding flu deaths. Apparently the claim is that the CDC is misreporting flu deaths as covid-19 deaths to raise the number of covid-19 deaths. That does not appear to be the case.

CDC is still tracking the flu, and the numbers are typical flu season numbers.

2017-2018 flu deaths: 61,000
2018-2019 flu deaths: 34,200
2019-2020 flu deaths: 24,000 to 62,000 flu deaths estimated
How many adults die from flu each year?

Flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)–attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu. As it does for the numbers of flu cases, doctor’s visits and hospitalizations, CDC also estimates deaths in the United States using mathematical modeling. CDC estimates that from 2010-2011 to 2017-2018, influenza-associated deaths in the United States ranged from a low of 12,000 (during 2011-2012) to a high of 79,000 (during 2017-2018). The model used to estimate flu-associated deaths uses a ratio of deaths-to-hospitalizations in order to estimate the total flu-related deaths during a season. For more information: How CDC Estimates Burden.
 

Romana

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I was curious so I looked some things up. Then looked again at what the claims might be regarding flu deaths. Apparently the claim is that the CDC is misreporting flu deaths as covid-19 deaths to raise the number of covid-19 deaths. That does not appear to be the case.

CDC is still tracking the flu, and the numbers are typical flu season numbers.

2017-2018 flu deaths: 61,000
2018-2019 flu deaths: 34,200
2019-2020 flu deaths: 24,000 to 62,000 flu deaths estimated
Well, they're saying that hospitals are claiming wildly unrelated things as COVID deaths. They've got some idea the burials get extra money that way. 🙄
But I had the impression that then bringing up the flu in this context was not an attempt to claim Covid deaths were flu deaths, but to claim that the number of Covid deaths was the same as the number of flu deaths, making COVID no less dire than flu, or something like that.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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The conflict theories are in high gear:


Contact tracing, trying to find out who might have been infected and possibly save their lives, is really post of the Sinister Plot.
These jokers really think Bill Gates is going to make a vaccine so that he can microchiip everyone. They think the "micro" in microchiip stands for microscopic, I guess.
Actually a big majority of Fox news viewers do believe that conspirary about Gates microchipping the people and over 40% of the people who call themself Republican and voted 2016 for Trump.

The representative survey of 1,640 US adults by YouGov for Yahoo News found that half of respondent Americans who say Fox News is their primary television news source believe the conspiracy theory. It's the largest group responding this way, followed by self-described Republicans and "Voted for Donald Trump in 2016" -- 44% of both those groups said they believed the conspiracy theory was true. Twenty-six percent of respondent Republicans said it was false, and 31% said they weren't sure.

Representatives for Fox News, the Republican Party, the White House and the Trump 2020 campaign didn't immediately respond to requests for comment. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which the namesake founders use to fund medical research and vaccine programs around the world, also didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.


 

Kara Spengler

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Actually a big majority of Fox news viewers do believe that conspirary about Gates microchipping the people and over 40% of the people who call themself Republican and voted 2016 for Trump.

The representative survey of 1,640 US adults by YouGov for Yahoo News found that half of respondent Americans who say Fox News is their primary television news source believe the conspiracy theory. It's the largest group responding this way, followed by self-described Republicans and "Voted for Donald Trump in 2016" -- 44% of both those groups said they believed the conspiracy theory was true. Twenty-six percent of respondent Republicans said it was false, and 31% said they weren't sure.

Representatives for Fox News, the Republican Party, the White House and the Trump 2020 campaign didn't immediately respond to requests for comment. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which the namesake founders use to fund medical research and vaccine programs around the world, also didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.


Well, they can go last in the vaccine line.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Boris Johnson's Special Advisor and Rasputin-wannabe Dominic Cummings, has been caught repeatedly flouting lockdown regulations while knowing he and his family were ill with Covid-19, and, to the vocal fury of many Conservative MPs, the Government are burning up masses of political capital to try to keep him in post.

More background here.


@garius has a good thread on why Johnson is so anxious to keep him