House Formally Launches Impeachment Inquiry

Kara Spengler

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If Trump goes down (still an "if" sadly), he'll try to take down everyone even close to ground zero. That includes Pence, Biden, McConnell, Pelosi, Schiff, he'll just splatter as much shit as he can. I predict Biden is going to be a casualty -- if nothing else, because his response to Trump's attacks has been so awkward that he looks weak or unprepared. Fingers crossed that Pence goes down, too, because we might get a President Pelosi, if only for a month or two.
That would be the dream scenario. A real swamp draining. Then someone in the middle for a few months. Then either a President Warren or a President Sanders.
 

Pamela

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The *depositions* in front of *committee investigators* are being done behind closed doors. That's normal for depositions. You don't want the possible wrongdoers to hear other people's testimony, because the could do things to respond to it - destroy evidence, alter their own testimony, etc. The committee hearings will come later, that's more like a trial, and in public. At that point all the depositions will be on the record.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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If Trump goes down (still an "if" sadly), he'll try to take down everyone even close to ground zero. That includes Pence, Biden, McConnell, Pelosi, Schiff, he'll just splatter as much shit as he can. I predict Biden is going to be a casualty -- if nothing else, because his response to Trump's attacks has been so awkward that he looks weak or unprepared. Fingers crossed that Pence goes down, too, because we might get a President Pelosi, if only for a month or two.
Absolutely. There's going to be so many people under that bus, they're going to need a bigger bus.

As for Biden, I'm not so sure. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with anything he or his son did. I mean, is his family expected to be unemployed and living in abject poverty while he was vice president? I'm pretty certain Hunter is allowed to pursue his own employment during that time. The only way I can see things going sideways is if Joe used his office to "grease the wheels" getting Hunter his position in the Ukraine.
 

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The only way I can see things going sideways is if Joe used his office to "grease the wheels" getting Hunter his position in the Ukraine.
He got a position on a board of a company in a line of business he had no experience with, in a country he had no experience with, at a pay rate that is higher than even American board members earn. So, what do you think happened?
 

Katheryne Helendale

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He got a position on a board of a company in a line of business he had no experience with, in a country he had no experience with, at a pay rate that is higher than even American board members earn. So, what do you think happened?
Right. But the question is, did Hunter get that job because of his association with Joe ("Oh, you;'re the US Vice President's son? Here, take this cushy job!)? Or did he get it because of any action by Joe ("If you give my son this job, I'll do this for you in return")? Honestly, I believe it could have gone either way.
 
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Anya Ristow

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Right. But the question is, did Hunter get that job because of his association with Joe ("Oh, you;'re the US Vice President's son? Here, take this cushy job!)? Or did he get it because of any action by Joe ("If you give my son this job, I'll do this for you in return")? Honestly, I believe it could have gone either way.
Do you see such a distinction in the people who are buying blocks of Trump hotel rooms and not using them? Is it okay if they just expect access and don't have an agreement to receive access?

Why did Clinton Foundation donations fall off a cliff when she lost the election? The answer is that none of this happens because, "hey, you're the son of the US vice president, it'd be cool to have you on board," or even, "that's a great cause and I'd like to help."
 
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Absolutely. There's going to be so many people under that bus, they're going to need a bigger bus.

As for Biden, I'm not so sure. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with anything he or his son did. I mean, is his family expected to be unemployed and living in abject poverty while he was vice president? I'm pretty certain Hunter is allowed to pursue his own employment during that time. The only way I can see things going sideways is if Joe used his office to "grease the wheels" getting Hunter his position in the Ukraine.
Joe is well known as having been one of the poorest in the Senate. Hunter is well known as a raging out of control addict and general train wreck of a human. Addicts are well known not to listen to wise advice or in this case I imagine the requests of family members. In fact, even non addicts are known to very frequently ignore parental advice and requests.

If in fact Joe had NO CONTROL over Hunter, he is no way responsible for his bad behavior.
 

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Do you see such a distinction in the people who are buying blocks of Trump hotel rooms and not using them? Is it okay if they just expect access and don't have an agreement to receive access?

Why did Clinton Foundation donations fall off a cliff when she lost the election? The answer is that none of this happens because, "hey, you're the son of the US vice president, it'd be cool to have you on board," or even, "that's a great cause and I'd like to help."
Absolutely. This is not a good look for Biden because even though what Hunter did was likely not illegal, it's just emblematic of the culture of corruption that exists in this country. The soft, systemic corruption that comes with glad-handing famous people, paying handsome fees to former presidents, legislators, administration officials or them joining lobbying firms to leverage their connections. And of course, the charity scam. Biden can't deny knowing his son's connection (there's pictures). But the fact that his family has been able to capitalize off his positions is unseemly, and there is no escaping that, however legal it may be. Resorting to "How DARE you sir!" when charging corruption against Trump loses its power when you dabble in your own corruption, however legal.
 

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Joe Biden has already been investigated about this stuff, and was found to have nothing to do with Hunter getting a job. Trump wanted a scandal to destroy Biden, despite already been cleared. Reports are that numerous people in the Trump administration warned that the investigation was a waste of time. Trump didn't listen. Trump just wants to sew doubt in the public against Biden, it doesn't matter if there is nothing to it.

If it weren't for the whistleblower, Trump could have used a line like "We have learned that Ukraine is investigating corruption of the Biden family" in a future press well timed press release.
 

Cristalle

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Joe Biden has already been investigated about this stuff, and was found to have nothing to do with Hunter getting a job. Trump wanted a scandal to destroy Biden, despite already been cleared. Reports are that numerous people in the Trump administration warned that the investigation was a waste of time. Trump didn't listen. Trump just wants to sew doubt in the public against Biden, it doesn't matter if there is nothing to it.

If it weren't for the whistleblower, Trump could have used a line like "We have learned that Ukraine is investigating corruption of the Biden family" in a future press well timed press release.
Come on, Ariane. Hunter had zero credentials to get a seat on that board, getting paid more than ExxonMobil board members. Joe may not have had an explicit hand in getting him there, but that is not how it works.
 

Ariane

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Come on, Ariane. Hunter had zero credentials to get a seat on that board, getting paid more than ExxonMobil board members. Joe may not have had an explicit hand in getting him there, but that is not how it works.
Neither Hunter or the company broke the law. Yes it looks bad, but threatening another country to investigate your political opponent is very much breaking the law. The GOP has yet to find a talking point that sticks that isn't proven wrong within hours.

Trump broke the law, and broke his pledge as President.
 

Cristalle

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Neither Hunter or the company broke the law. Yes it looks bad, but threatening another country to investigate your political opponent is very much breaking the law. The GOP has yet to find a talking point that sticks that isn't proven wrong within hours.

Trump broke the law, and broke his pledge as President.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that all Trump needs to do to muddy the waters with Biden is throw a credible "I know you are but what am I?" at Biden, and it works. We know it works, because he did that with Hillary Clinton.
 

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NBC News: Trump administration orders ambassador at center of Ukraine scandal not to testify before Congress.
They are allowed to do so? More ammunition towards impeachment I guess... maybe members of the Trump administration are so sick of him they advise him to self destruct...
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Oh, we are setting up for a showdown Trump simply can't win:

 

danielravennest

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Oh, we are setting up for a showdown Trump simply can't win:

There's a law on the books that Congress can withhold the pay of any government official who interferes with their work. That doesn't hurt Donnie, but it can sure hurt people lower down on the food chain. Pompeo is their first target.