Democrats Move Forward With Trump Impeachment

Shiloh Lyric

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Uh...you ain't moving forward with anything until the Speaker changes her mind about it "not being the time for that".
Article I doesn't require a vote of the House to start the impeachment process. The Judiciary Committee has the power to start it moving forward, which is what they're doing right now.

But I doubt this is a hard break with Speaker Pelosi. I'm sure Nadler (and others) has been working on her behind the scenes and chatter was that her stance against Impeachment was softening. Despite the fact that Mueller didn't have the same excitement as watching someone get voted off the Island, he gave them a LOT, including that Trump gave untruthful answers under oath. Now they're asking for all of the Grand Jury information and more.

What they get through the Impeachment Inquiry is what will determine whether they move forward with a vote on articles of Impeachment, if I remember my 8th grade Civics correctly.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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Uh...you ain't moving forward with anything until the Speaker changes her mind about it "not being the time for that".
Oddly enough, I disagree. There's a pretty good argument on why this must move forward. It's bigger than Nancy Pelosi. Any Democrat that attempts to stand in it's way will be suspect to it's allegations. It seems like the vast majority pretty much agrees that something wasn't right about 2016 and they can't and shouldn't accept the outcome at face value. It is about Democracy and the The Constitution. It does demand a witch hunt. The Democrats stepped up with the loudest cries and the biggest torches. If they can't quench the thirst for truth and justice, then the witch hunt will be turned on them. There's probably not enough hoses in the world to put out that fire if it ever gets lit, so they can't let that happen. Somebody is going down for Trump.
 

Sid

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Oddly enough, I disagree. There's a pretty good argument on why this must move forward. It's bigger than Nancy Pelosi. Any Democrat that attempts to stand in it's way will be suspect to it's allegations. It seems like the vast majority pretty much agrees that something wasn't right about 2016 and they can't and shouldn't accept the outcome at face value. It is about Democracy and the The Constitution. It does demand a witch hunt. The Democrats stepped up with the loudest cries and the biggest torches. If they can't quench the thirst for truth and justice, then the witch hunt will be turned on them. There's probably not enough hoses in the world to put out that fire if it ever gets lit, so they can't let that happen. Somebody is going down for Trump.
Then why should the Reps not bother as well? It's their Democracy and Constitution as well.
But they will let the Dems (who would try) look bad, by blocking an impeachment in every way they can.

IMHO the best and fastest way to get rid of Trump is by mobilizing every non Trumpist in the country to go and vote for whomever will be the Democrat running. Getting 45 behind bars is much easier once the joker is out of office.
But the 2020 change of president has to suceed, otherwise democracy in the US could become a real farce for the next decades.
 

Noodles

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Then why should the Reps not bother as well? It's their Democracy and Constitution as well.
But they will let the Dems (who would try) look bad, by blocking an impeachment in every way they can.

IMHO the best and fastest way to get rid of Trump is by mobilizing every non Trumpist in the country to go and vote for whomever will be the Democrat running. Getting 45 behind bars is much easier once the joker is out of office.
But the 2020 change of president has to suceed, otherwise democracy in the US could become a real farce for the next decades.
Waiting may backfire.

They seriously run the risk of alienating Progressives (actual progressives, now wishy washy right Dems) from voting at all by taking no action.

Trump sucks, but waiting for whatever reason just says they don't actually care. Also they really need to run an actual decent candidate. Pushing a "Not Trump" candidate isn't going to do it . People who are already tired of "vote for the lesser of two evils" for decades may just decide "fuck it, let it burn" as much as the Trump supporters who want that .
 

Aeon Jiminy

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Then why should the Reps not bother as well? It's their Democracy and Constitution as well.
But they will let the Dems (who would try) look bad, by blocking an impeachment in every way they can.

IMHO the best and fastest way to get rid of Trump is by mobilizing every non Trumpist in the country to go and vote for whomever will be the Democrat running. Getting 45 behind bars is much easier once the joker is out of office.
But the 2020 change of president has to suceed, otherwise democracy in the US could become a real farce for the next decades.
You have good questions and I don't have answers. I don't know why the US is marching toward an other election, with Trump in it. using hackable voting machines to deliver results. What's this show really all about? I'll bet you could get a 4th grader to arrive to a better solution in 30 minutes of unbiased teaching. Both parties and the media just pretend like that's the craziest thing they've ever heard of. Does anyone doubt that a pepperoni pizza could beat Trump in an election with hand counted paper ballots and human tabulated results? I dunno. It seems like we're begging for a farce.
 
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Sid

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They seriously run the risk of alienating Progressives (actual progressives, now wishy washy right Dems) from voting at all by taking no action.
The basically 'two parties that matter' system of the US can't be changed within a few years. That takes time
The president can be changed in 2020. No unpredictable impeachment procedures needed.
But I agree, it is no given that it will happen, mainly because of the relatively low number of people who actually go and vote in the US.
 
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Truthfully, the only way we have a shot at removing Trump from office in my opinion starts with forcing Mitch McConnell to allow a vote on the bipartisan bill to protect the election, and doing it soon. Someone with a loud voice needs to start a plan to flood every Republican senator's phone lines and email with demands that the vote be taken - the nickname of "Moscow Mitch" needs to be used often and loudly and in places where the red states can see it - because they will care about him being in bed with the Russians in ways they are willing to forgive Trump for.
 

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The president can be changed in 2020.
The possibility is there. The probability is not. The loyal minions of the party of arrogant stupidity re-elected Shrub Jr... and they'll re-elect Trump as well.

If doing so wouldn't jeapordize my non-existent soul... I would I put money on it as a certainty... as well as betting that before the election we'll be at war with someone just to guarantee the election victory.

The only thing that will prevent it is, possibly, Trumps hardening arteries.
 

Sid

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The possibility is there. The probability is not. The loyal minions of the party of arrogant stupidity re-elected Shrub Jr... and they'll re-elect Trump as well.

If doing so wouldn't jeapordize my non-existent soul... I would I put money on it as a certainty... as well as betting that before the election we'll be at war with someone just to guarantee the election victory.

The only thing that will prevent it is, possibly, Trumps hardening arteries.
On the other hand Bush the elderly just came succesfully out of a war, and did not get his second term.
I believe that there are enough Democrats, even in darkest red states, to vote down Humpty Trumpty from his wall, if they could be arsed to go out and vote. A lot of footwork has to be done. It will happen by buying tons of commersials only.
 
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Dakota Tebaldi

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The biggest problem with impeachment, as I see it, is that even if it succeeds, it fails if Trump is reelected next year. Because the Constitution does not say a single-term president who is impeached cannot serve again if he's elected again. A rational Supreme Court would tell you that is implied; but thanks to 2016's protest-voters and stay-homers, the Supreme Court is no longer rational, it is now heavily partisan and is voting along party lines, and will unquestionably allow an impeached Republican president to return to office - do any of you seriously doubt it? And then Dem voters will be so demoralized at so dramatically snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that the GOP will win back Congress in '22. So, again - if impeachment succeeds, and Trump is reelected immediately afterwards, our government's vaunted system of checks and balances will now have no more credibility and we descend further still into a fascist autocracy.

If, on the other hand, impeachment proceedings are not finished before the election, and Trump is re-elected, the issue is moot because continuing with impeachment proceedings in that case can't be seen as anything other than a direct attempt by Congress to subvert the legal results of the election, it is an unjustifiable means even to the end of getting rid of Donald Trump.

And neither of those two problems can be waved away with "but Donald Trump won't win next year", or even "Donald Trump most likely won't win next year". Anybody who says those words with anything other than irony after what happened in 2016 belongs in a nuthouse, to be frank. That statement's just plain not true until it actually happens.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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The point of impeachment is that, it is the only way to punish that criminal until he is knocked back down to a 'normal' citizen, or as close as is possible for a former president to be. I don't think is should wait; even if the Senate won't actually proceed, it needs to be done. It shows some backbone, for one.
 

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If Congress doesn't break Turtle's logjam, pass the bills for election security, and act on them, we can't count on ousting 45 in 2020 even with enough votes. The Russians have reached into the voting systems in all 50 states. Both parties should care about this. McConnell should--unless he's OK with it, hence Moscow Mitch.
 

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If Congress doesn't break Turtle's logjam, pass the bills for election security, and act on them, we can't count on ousting 45 in 2020 even with enough votes. The Russians have reached into the voting systems in all 50 states. Both parties should care about this. McConnell should--unless he's OK with it, hence Moscow Mitch.
He's okay with it.

There are too many people who say they don't want a Trumpian, Neo-Confederate government, but think their own prospects are safe enough if it happens, that between them and the hard Right there's enough to hold the Senate and the Presidency.

Some of this problem is people who still don't believe the Republicans are capable of radical change and dismiss concerns as alarmist. No matter how much you try to explain what the Republicans actually have said and done, they just won't listen. I don't understand why they do this, and beyond the genuinely ignorant, I think they're gaslighting and are really Trumpian.

If the coup has already happened and is a done deal, "Resistance" is about to become more than a metaphor.
 

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Truthfully, the only way we have a shot at removing Trump from office in my opinion starts with forcing Mitch McConnell to allow a vote on the bipartisan bill to protect the election, and doing it soon.
Maybe somebody is going to try it Abraham Lincoln/John F. Kennedy style, which of course would be unlawful and a crime.

But then again Trump made himself enough enemies, that some people might be really tempted to give it a try none the less.
 

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If Congress doesn't break Turtle's logjam, pass the bills for election security, and act on them, we can't count on ousting 45 in 2020 even with enough votes. The Russians have reached into the voting systems in all 50 states. Both parties should care about this. McConnell should--unless he's OK with it, hence Moscow Mitch.
Mitch is absolutely okay with that, because it's his party that stands to gain from such an arrangement. And not just the GOP in general, but far-right, Christians-in-name-only, white supremacists who stand to gain the most.
 

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The point of impeachment is that, it is the only way to punish that criminal until he is knocked back down to a 'normal' citizen, or as close as is possible for a former president to be. I don't think is should wait; even if the Senate won't actually proceed, it needs to be done. It shows some backbone, for one.
Yes, even if he is not punished because of it someone who can do so NEEDS to say "this was stepping over the line". If not you give him permission to keep going and it sets a precedent.
 

Brenda Archer

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Yes, even if he is not punished because of it someone who can do so NEEDS to say "this was stepping over the line". If not you give him permission to keep going and it sets a precedent.
In a way, impeachment is for us, for our morale. If you’re forced to live with an abuser, you have to fight back psychologically as much as you can, even if you’re not in a position to escape. You have to fight the gaslighting and establish a zone of truth even if no one else will listen, to give your own mind a space in which to function. We need to get the truth to come out. It may force the collective abuse to escalate, but that’s usually one of the stages in unmasking the abusers.