Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

Kara Spengler

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Yes, let's continue to choose to make our doctors deal with our fucking insurance companies, because that keeps our medical bills lower than the civilized world.

The insurance lobby and the republicans have really done a number on us.
Yeah, doctor's need to have multiple members of their staff *just* to deal with the different insurance companies. All of which have different procedures, want to maximize their profits (via minimizing claims), and think their beancounters know more than the doctor who has said what should be the right thing to do.
 

Beebo Brink

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What I find most disturbing about Biden's casually broad stereotypes -- which I consider to be racist, even if he is smugly paternalistic rather than vicious -- is that he had 8 YEARS of close association with Barack Obama and apparently Biden learned not one damn thing about his own prejudices. That relationship doesn't appear to have sparked intellectual or moral curiosity about what it means to be black or white in America. By sheer osmosis, by watching the media circus about tan suits, Biden should have been schooled in the deep pernicious effects of racism at the highest reaches of governance. He was in the richest environment a white man could ask for in stepping outside his comfort zone and learning something vital, critical about the fault lines of America, from one of the most revered and respected black men in the country, if not the world.

And as far as I can tell, Biden squandered that opportunity. He still thinks exactly like the man he was 10, 15, 20 years ago. Was he sleepwalking thru those White House years? What a fucking waste of a brain.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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There is controversy about the mechanics of this endorsement, since WFP vote result is 50% leadership vs 50% membership :

"It’s impossible to know, given the process the party used to choose their candidate, split evenly between the votes of tens of thousands of WFP members and a small board of several dozen people. The party announced that Warren drew just over 60 percent of the ranked-choice vote, but refused to release the exact breakdown of member votes versus board votes, as they did in 2015 when Sanders won.

The leadership’s rationale for not releasing the tally was incoherent. “For there to be one true vote, and to maintain the nature of secret ballot,” Maurice Mitchell said, “all of that went into the back end.” Since when did a secret ballot mean not having to disclose the results?"

Sanders supporters are untrusting, for sure, and are going to make the process difficult. Nobody promised that beating Trump was going to be easy. Now is the time to produce the receipts and build trust. It will pay off later.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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What I find most disturbing about Biden's casually broad stereotypes -- which I consider to be racist, even if he is smugly paternalistic rather than vicious -- is that he had 8 YEARS of close association with Barack Obama and apparently Biden learned not one damn thing about his own prejudices. That relationship doesn't appear to have sparked intellectual or moral curiosity about what it means to be black or white in America. By sheer osmosis, by watching the media circus about tan suits, Biden should have been schooled in the deep pernicious effects of racism at the highest reaches of governance. He was in the richest environment a white man could ask for in stepping outside his comfort zone and learning something vital, critical about the fault lines of America, from one of the most revered and respected black men in the country, if not the world.

And as far as I can tell, Biden squandered that opportunity. He still thinks exactly like the man he was 10, 15, 20 years ago. Was he sleepwalking thru those White House years? What a fucking waste of a brain.
Maybe it's a case of "some of my best friends are black" syndrome.

The phrase is a cliche' anymore, but it's still used to imply that the expressed views of a person who has black friends can't be racist because why would a racist ever be friends with a black person?

I don't think Biden ever used the phrase, or maybe ever even consciously thought it; but I wonder if having a solid and close friendship with a black person was enough to convince Biden, at least on an unconscious level, that well obviously he can't be racist if he's such close friends with Barack Obama of all people, so there's no particular need for self-reflection along those lines.
 

Eunoli

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Maybe it's a case of "some of my best friends are black" syndrome.
I don't think its that. Biden has been a strong supporter of civil rights his whole career. He's never /done/ anything that leads anyone to suspect actual racism, in my opinion.

But, what Biden has done, has always done - is be utterly horrible at choosing the right words to express himself. He has consistently stuck his foot in his mouth and said insensitive things as long as I've been aware of him as a politician.

He's just...awful at expressing himself and as he gets older that is a larger and larger liability.
 

Kara Spengler

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I don't think its that. Biden has been a strong supporter of civil rights his whole career. He's never /done/ anything that leads anyone to suspect actual racism, in my opinion.

But, what Biden has done, has always done - is be utterly horrible at choosing the right words to express himself. He has consistently stuck his foot in his mouth and said insensitive things as long as I've been aware of him as a politician.

He's just...awful at expressing himself and as he gets older that is a larger and larger liability.
Joe basically is a product of his time. While he got better on some things (marriage equality) others are firmly rooted in what he learned decades ago (like how to treat women). I do not think he is INTENTIONALLY being any form of *ist, he is just doing what he has always done when it comes to stuff that is not as obvious to him. Unfortunately for him that stuff is not what the culture expects anymore and as a politician he should have picked up on that stuff.
 

Eunoli

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While this is huge and I am still an Elizabeth Warren fan (though still not as much as Michael Bennett), its important to remember that she spoke in literally one of the most liberal hotspots in the entire country.

I want to see her go to Kansas or Florida and get the same. (I think she might actually manage, but we need to see it)
 

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Brenda Archer

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Potential problem for Buttigieg. If this story gets legs, stick a fork in him.

Documents: Police Used Buttigieg Donors to Get Him to Fire Black Chief

Maybe big donors are just more trouble than they're worth.
I got halfway through the article before my battery died. So far it's the same soap opera as any small city in a flyover state. Is there a smoking gun in the second half? There's nothing in the first half but a new greenhorn mayor, which is not in dispute.
 

Aeon Jiminy

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I got halfway through the article before my battery died. So far it's the same soap opera as any small city in a flyover state. Is there a smoking gun in the second half? There's nothing in the first half but a new greenhorn mayor, which is not in dispute.
The point may be that nobody is going to care enough to look for a smoking gun. The optics are horrible. I can't imagine who is going to want to attach a less than zero appeal to black voters to their ticket. Krystal Ball does a thoughtful summary _www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNw6aX3SEJA_that brings home the point of money.
 

Cristalle

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I got halfway through the article before my battery died. So far it's the same soap opera as any small city in a flyover state. Is there a smoking gun in the second half? There's nothing in the first half but a new greenhorn mayor, which is not in dispute.
There is documentation that several white officers planned to remove the police chief and said racist things to make the whole police force white again by pressuring Buttigieg's donors. Krystal's video as Aeon linked above is good at laying out what happened.
 

Brenda Archer

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There is documentation that several white officers planned to remove the police chief and said racist things to make the whole police force white again by pressuring Buttigieg's donors. Krystal's video as Aeon linked above is good at laying out what happened.
I’m not in a place right now to listen to a You Tube unless it’s captioned. But the first half of the article does say this about the police officers. It goes on about phone recordings mishandled enough the FBI got involved.

It says all this happened before and during the transition to the new mayor, then there were lawsuits and an FBI investigation. No one will legally talk, including the demoted police chief.

It’s a lousy situation for any new boss to inherit, and it’s certainly going to make people think the new mayor was involved in a coverup- he could just as easily be the fall guy, because no one is talking.

It’s just like some of the worst HR messes I have seen and heard of before. There is obviously malfeasance, but everyone has been silenced by the powers that be. Which is just how HR messes end up, because the entrenched powers in a small town are not interested in an open or accountable system. They want their money. If the new mayor completely ignored them, they’d replace him.

So the new mayor said he wanted to switch the police to a merit based promotion system (exactly what we’d expect a former corporate consultant to say). Then the narrative goes back to more soap opera and low level people acting badly.

But the high level people and the FBI are all silenced by lawsuits. This is certainly bad, but very ordinary in small cities and corporations where transparency has not been required.

What I’m not seeing is the smoking gun to prove the new mayor knew he was supporting racist police. Did anyone finally talk? I didn’t get that far.
 

Cristalle

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I’m not in a place right now to listen to a You Tube unless it’s captioned. But the first half of the article does say this about the police officers. It goes on about phone recordings mishandled enough the FBI got involved.

It says all this happened before and during the transition to the new mayor, then there were lawsuits and an FBI investigation. No one will legally talk, including the demoted police chief.

It’s a lousy situation for any new boss to inherit, and it’s certainly going to make people think the new mayor was involved in a coverup- he could just as easily be the fall guy, because no one is talking.

It’s just like some of the worst HR messes I have seen and heard of before. There is obviously malfeasance, but everyone has been silenced by the powers that be. Which is just how HR messes end up, because the entrenched powers in a small town are not interested in an open or accountable system. They want their money. If the new mayor completely ignored them, they’d replace him.

So the new mayor said he wanted to switch the police to a merit based promotion system (exactly what we’d expect a former corporate consultant to say). Then the narrative goes back to more soap opera and low level people acting badly.

But the high level people and the FBI are all silenced by lawsuits. This is certainly bad, but very ordinary in small cities and corporations where transparency has not been required.

What I’m not seeing is the smoking gun to prove the new mayor knew he was supporting racist police. Did anyone finally talk? I didn’t get that far.
There is no actual smoking gun that Buttigieg got pressured from an actual donor and caved. All it is is reporting of a potential new linkage and we have to treat it as such.
 
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Cristalle

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Kamala Harris is the new Marco Rubio. She will not even win her own home state. Andrew Yang is polling higher than Harris in her own state. "Top tier candidate" indeed.

 

Eunoli

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Its kind of important to note that not a single person here (I don't think) thinks that having health care and employment tied is a good idea. None of the current presidential candidates (with one or two exceptions) does either. The only difference is on how to do it and how quickly to take each step. All of these plans have the same eventual goal (again, except a couple of them).
 

Cristalle

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Its kind of important to note that not a single person here (I don't think) thinks that having health care and employment tied is a good idea. None of the current presidential candidates (with one or two exceptions) does either. The only difference is on how to do it and how quickly to take each step. All of these plans have the same eventual goal (again, except a couple of them).
Propping up the ACA, which the centrists clearly and openly support, does not get there.

In the meanwhile:


M4A puts power back in the hands of workers.
 

Anya Ristow

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Its kind of important to note that not a single person here (I don't think) thinks that having health care and employment tied is a good idea. None of the current presidential candidates (with one or two exceptions) does either. The only difference is on how to do it and how quickly to take each step. All of these plans have the same eventual goal (again, except a couple of them).
Disagree. A willingness to let "medicare for those who want it" coexist with private insurance seems very much a part of the discussion, here and with all but a couple of the candidates. "Medicare choice" leaves a primary cost savings unfulfilled and possibly prevents "the public option" from ever realizing a substantial cost savings, and possibly dooms it to possibly planned failure. Only one of the leading candidates is unambiguously clear that there is no role for private insurers, and another is possibly there but for some reason keeps using hedge words. None of the other candidates get acknowledgment from me that they will even fight for difficult change.