WTF Climate Change News

Sid

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Digging up the street is no big deal.
Here in NL practically every cable goes into the ground. That has huge advantages: Less of eyesores, less outages, less damages and fires.



As you can see, no cables in the air and in this street two parking spaces where parking is only allowed when you charge your car.



Parking spaces to charge in an in door parking lot.



At Amsterdam airport.

It is doable, but it needs a lot more new infra structure.
And yes it costs money, and yes we have to pay for it one way or the other.
But hey, the cable, internet and water supply isn't free either.
 
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Digging up the street is no big deal.
Here in NL practically every cable goes into the ground. That has huge advantages: Less of eyesores, less outages, less damages and fires.



As you can see, no cables in the air and in this street two parking spaces where parking is only allowed when you charge your car.
That makes sense I guess. It is unrelated to parking meters though other than it is a box on the street.
 

Sid

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You guys really still use coin operated parking meters?
 
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You guys really still use coin operated parking meters?
I don't know how common they are in general. We have them in my burb. In downtown Portland they put one box in the middle of each street which takes cash or cards and prints a ticket to put inside the car.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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I don't see how parking meters would work. They have no AC so you'll have to dig up the street. Then you will need a credit card reader or something. A Tesla for instance costs around $15 to charge. It also takes 10 hours to charge a Tesla. Most parking meters will time out long before then.
I don't know. I do know, because my local MP is particularly interested in the future of electric vehicles and I read his social media updates about his parliamentary activities, that local councils are having to look at this.

I'm not sure that current charging times on a Tesla (or anything else) are particularly relevant here, since because a sizeable chunk of the European car market will, over the next 10 to 20 years, be closed to new private cars powered by petrol and diesel engines, plenty of European and Japanese car manufacturers are having to turn their attention to electric cars, and they''ve got plenty of time to develop new technologies.

When I consider how much cellphones, laptops and PCs have changed over the last 10 to 20 years, I imagine that technology on which electric cars depend will make similar advances over time, particularly when prompted by necessity.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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To me, the only real alternative to fossil fuel cars are hydrogen cell vehicles. The Hydrogen is
* Easy to create
* The infrastructure of existing gas stations can be used for it
* Fueling up the car takes essentially as long as with fossil fuels
* No need to handle the immense problem of a charging infrastructure for everybody
* No battery production insanity, including no increased mining of lithium, which in itself is already a problem for the environment.

But with the current e-hype, this solution is being vastly underfunded in comparison, and all the big car companies are on the E-train now, so...c'est la vie.
No no no no no!

Mass producing fuel cells needs lots of platinum, unless a cheaper catalysator for the reaction has been found. This makes the production of fuel cells expensive, and therefore not feasable if you want to replace all types of cars from lowest to upper class.

The Toyota Mirai, which indeed is a hydrogen powered car, does come for that reason with a 80.000 US$ price tag.

Aside that the production of hydrogen is electrical power intensive, and wastes a lot of it.

The solution is much simpler: cars could be driven by artificial methane. The CO2 would be sucked out of the air using electrical power, and there is a known chemical reaction with copper as catalysator which makes this quite cheap now.

Since powering cars with natural gas is quite a well known technology and most modern engines are able to run on it without big changes, the switch to this would be much easier. It could be also CO2 neutral, because it is just sucked out of the air and gets into the air again. No new CO2 would be added, if all is done with renewable and/or nuclear energy.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Promising research, but not a solution yet. This device targets the extraction of CO2 from air, but not what you do with it once you have it. Using it to fizz sodas really missed the larger point. It's the "Otherwise" (my bolding) that needs to be explored for expense and scalability.

The CO2 collected during the process could also be useful, and indirectly, contribute to greenhouse gas reduction. Companies that make fizzy drinks, the researchers point out, frequently burn fossil fuels to generate carbon dioxide for their products. They would no longer need to burden the atmosphere in order to give pop its "pop."

Otherwise, pure carbon dioxide can be compressed and disposed of underground. Or, they suggest, it can be turned into fuel.
 

Innula Zenovka

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For the millions of people who descend on Munich for the annual bash, Oktoberfest is a celebration of beer, bands and bratwurst.

But as the dust settles for another year on the world’s largest folk festival, and die Bierleichen (“beer corpses”) return to the land of the living, environmental scientists have released the first analysis of methane emissions from the 16-day party.

Researchers at Technical University in Munich walked and cycled around the perimeter of the festival last year with mobile sensors aloft. The instruments found the event emitted nearly 1,500kg of methane – 10 times the amount that wafted off Boston, Massachusetts, in the same period.

The scientists attributed most of Oktoberfest’s emissions to leaks and incomplete combustion in cooking and heating appliances. Though an appreciable part of the rise in the gas, about 10%, was attributed to the flatulence and burps of attendees.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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The last apartment complex I lived in it could be up to 1/4 mile. Most of the picture except the upper left is the complex. The two light grey areas is the parking.

It looks like a nice complex, but I couldn't imagine having to carry groceries all that way, especially after a large grocery run.
 
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Katheryne Helendale

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But customers will want them replaced around the time they lost 20% of their capacity - which will be much earlier. People don't like it when their e-car, which already has way less range than a normal car (unless you get an expensive tesla) suddenly gets you 80 less miles on a charge than it initially did.

And the thing is, to prevent those kinds of batteries from degrading, you need to ideally keep them 1) between ~40% and 75% charge and 2) Charge them slowly. Which are both exactly the things that is not being done with electric cars. So yeah, no.Give them one year under heavy use, maybe three.

If electric cars become the #1 mode of transportation, the waste of battery production and battery recycling will be quite substantial. We already had this - The dystopian lake filled by the world’s tech lust - develop due to our tech waste before e-cars were really popular. This will make it worse. A lot worse. But people don't tend to care as long as it is *their* environment that seems to become cleaner.

To me, the only real alternative to fossil fuel cars are hydrogen cell vehicles. The Hydrogen is
* Easy to create
* The infrastructure of existing gas stations can be used for it
* Fueling up the car takes essentially as long as with fossil fuels
* No need to handle the immense problem of a charging infrastructure for everybody
* No battery production insanity, including no increased mining of lithium, which in itself is already a problem for the environment.

But with the current e-hype, this solution is being vastly underfunded in comparison, and all the big car companies are on the E-train now, so...c'est la vie.
I really like this idea. It would be easy to make, easy to fill, and so much better for the environment. The only downside I can see is getting past people's view of four-wheeled hydrogen bombs hurtling down the interstate at 80 miles per hour.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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I really like this idea. It would be easy to make, easy to fill, and so much better for the environment. The only downside I can see is getting past people's view of four-wheeled hydrogen bombs hurtling down the interstate at 80 miles per hour.
Unfortunately it would be not so easy: hydrogen is the simplest element in the universe - just one proton in the core. This means that it has the nasty and unwanted feature to evaporate out of most tanks with ease. Since sucking it out of the atmosphere at large is not an option for a large scale production, water is the necessary origin of it.

And the most common procedures to generate it are quite energy consuming: to produce the equivalent of one liter of petrol you need to input the energy equivalent of three liters of petrol in generation and cooling. Cooling it down uses again a lot of energy. So maybe we could generate it out of renewable enegy? But if mass production becomes a thing, we would need to have much more renewable energy plants available. Maybe this might become a thing for African countries with nice deserts and own shores.

In order to prevent this it gets cooled down and pressurized - a lot. VW uses 700 bar tanks; and the tanks are layer over layer over layer.

The tank also needs a bigger capacity in order to contain the equivalent of the petrol needed to drive 500 kms than a normal car has.

Also the gas stations would need to be equipped with new petrol pumps as well.

So hydrogen fueled cars have two big fundamental problems at the moment:

a) the cheap production of hydrogen is a problem which still needs to be resolved
b) the cheap production of fuel cells is a problem which still needs to be resolved.

It's a nice idea, but still needs much more basic research before ready for mass deployment.
 

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And the thing is, to prevent those kinds of batteries from degrading, you need to ideally keep them 1) between ~40% and 75% charge and 2) Charge them slowly. Which are both exactly the things that is not being done with electric cars. So yeah, no.Give them one year under heavy use, maybe three.
AFAIK, they're still using LiON, (same as laptops, cellphones, vapes, whatever) and they only last about 3 years even if babied and that's for top-quality Japanese cells. Besides only lasting a few years they tend to degrade on a fairly steep curve as well. And the "stable" lifespan is at 25c . . . which vehicles tend to exceed in either direction.

Cars do limit the discharge/range more than other devices though (20-80 or 25-75 depending on maker), and if it's only slow charged I could maybe see getting 5-6 years out of one if driven in a moderate climate.


TLDR more technical stuff:

 
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Sid

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On the other hand Audi seems to be developing the Audi H-tron.....



1000 KM with one tank.
Filling up as fast as with a conventional gas car.
For now based on a Hyundai Nexo engine
Real production car expected second half of next decennium.


In Dutch, but Google can translate I suppose.
 
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On the other hand Audi seems to be developing the Audi H-tron.....



1000 KM with one tank.
Filling up as fast as with a conventional gas car.
For now based on a Hyundai Nexo engine
Real production car expected second half of next decennium.


In Dutch, but Google can translate I suppose.
Google translated it quite well though I chuckled at the subtitle, "Audi is going to give off gas with hydrogen."
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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On the other hand Audi seems to be developing the Audi H-tron.....



1000 KM with one tank.
Filling up as fast as with a conventional gas car.
For now based on a Hyundai Nexo engine
Real production car expected second half of next decennium.
Well showcasing hydrogen fuel based cars has been a thing for the German car industry since the 90s. None of it ever reached mass production, though some buses were equipped with that technology. It's an eternal promise never came true, like nuclear fusion reactors so far.

The reason why the car industry is developing this is quite simple - to get subsidies from the German state. It's designed to grab money, nothing more nothing less. For the time being electrification seems to be the way for the big German car manufacturers to go, including Volkswagen which is nowadays the biggest car manufacturer on the planet. All car manufacturers in Germany started announcing and producing electrical cars this year.

There's no real way around this for car manufacturers in the EU, because the EU demands an average CO2 pollution from all cars sold in a year by a manufacturer of 95 g/km soon, unless SUVs became a shaming thing. Most manufacturers are much higher, and since Fiat-Chrysler already bought many pollution rights from Tesla that ship has sailed for the rest. So the manufacturers are desperate to reduce the carbon footprint of their flotilla, otherwise there are going to be penalties for them soon.
 
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