#BYEDON 2020 - The End Better Fucking Be Near

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Just musing about a situation back in the 14th century: there were two popes simultaneously. One at Avignon, favored (created?) by the French king, another at Rome created by the Italian cardinals, iirc.

Trump will get one of the Supreme Court justices to administer the Oath of office to him on Jan. 20 on television, same time as Biden's Oath is administered. There's nothing in the Constitution except the Oath and Trump'll continue to claim that he won the "rigged" election, when one throws out all the "illegal" votes. So we would have two presidents, one out of his head and willing to rule by means of his supporter mob; the other there by means of our honest democratic system.

Justice Roberts, should he get wind of such a thing before it happens, will bend heaven and earth, so far as he can, to stop it; it would severely damage the reputation of the Court. But particularly Alito and Thomas are twisted enough to do the deed for Trump. A Justice is not required by our Constitution, but it lends the appropriate air of a norm being honored by having a Justice lead Trump through the Oath.
 
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bubblesort

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Squatting ends by several things, including the legal tenant asking them to leave.
Yeah, but the funny thing is, the White House has basically always been a squat. No president ever paid rent or mortgage there. I doubt they even pay for their own utilities. Presidents are like a club of homeless people who pass the squat from one to the other, based on a homeless person popularity contest every 4 years, as part of a weird homeless person ritual.

Trump will probably be forcibly removed if he tries this, because it's federal property, but you know... I'm not sure that Biden, or any of his predecessors are legal tenants. They live there because of custom, not law.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Yeah, but the funny thing is, the White House has basically always been a squat. No president ever paid rent or mortgage there. I doubt they even pay for their own utilities. Presidents are like a club of homeless people who pass the squat from one to the other, based on a homeless person popularity contest every 4 years, as part of a weird homeless person ritual.

Trump will probably be forcibly removed if he tries this, because it's federal property, but you know... I'm not sure that Biden, or any of his predecessors are legal tenants. They live there because of custom, not law.
Does the concept of tied accommodation -- that is, accommodation that goes with the job -- not exist in US law?
 

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Yeah, but the funny thing is, the White House has basically always been a squat. No president ever paid rent or mortgage there. I doubt they even pay for their own utilities. Presidents are like a club of homeless people who pass the squat from one to the other, based on a homeless person popularity contest every 4 years, as part of a weird homeless person ritual.
The rent is "free" but board, upkeep to some degree, and a lot of everything else are not (staff tends to be included in the free part because nearly everyone in the White House is a federal or government employee). The president even receives a bill each month - virtually speaking.


There are usually trusts and funds set up through donations to defray various costs to the president, like for legal fees and whatnot. Clinton claims he left the White House millions "in debt" because of this. It's a complicated mix of what's free and what's not.
 

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Yeah, but the funny thing is, the White House has basically always been a squat. No president ever paid rent or mortgage there. I doubt they even pay for their own utilities. Presidents are like a club of homeless people who pass the squat from one to the other, based on a homeless person popularity contest every 4 years, as part of a weird homeless person ritual.

Trump will probably be forcibly removed if he tries this, because it's federal property, but you know... I'm not sure that Biden, or any of his predecessors are legal tenants. They live there because of custom, not law.

The Whitehouse is managed by the US National Park Service (NPS). The NPS maintains a large number of residence properties. In some places personnel are required to live on-site, and in other places residence properties are optional for different personnel associated with the particular property. The guidelines for tenancy are strictly defined and subject to NPS policy:

The Whitehouse is interesting because it likely falls under a variety of different categories:

historic property
official use property
restricted use property

The policy for evictions by NPS are defined in section 8.1.7 of the document given above:

A superintendent has the authority to evict any tenant upon termination or breach of the terms of
occupancy found on form 10-380, the Housing Assignment Agreement: when occupancy does not
meet the needs of the park, the Service or the Department of the Interior; or when occupancy
poses a threat to the public health and welfare.
page 54
The tenant must receive a 30 days’ notification, or the requirement of the state in which the park is
located, whichever is longer, unless there is a present threat to health and safety. If such a threat
exists, eviction can be immediate. The personnel office should be notified when an eviction is
considered; the matter must be adequately documented. The regional solicitor must be consulted
during this process. See Department of the Interior Housing Management Handbook (400 DM 3),
Chapter 3, for more information related to evictions.
Note the requirement for a 30 day grace period. Given the sensitive security apparatus associated with the operations that happen within the Whitehouse I suspect certain variations in that arrangement may be possible.

There are federal statutes dictating how policies are created and implemented:

One interesting aspect of these policies is that the President has the power to set some conditions. If that is the case then the President at the time may have a part to play in determining what to do with any squatter on federal property.
 

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It is a Park Service site, so the Park Service should follow standard procedure.

Dart him, measure and weigh, clip his ear, affix a radio tag, and release him far from civilization.

Same thing they would do for any nuisance animal on park property.
 

danielravennest

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After the new president is sworn in, his predecessor will become a private citizen again, and is thus as subject to removal from federal property as an unwanted trespasser as would anyone else be, surely?
Yes. The Secret Service protects the President and former presidents, but they have to follow the orders of the current president. There are 6500 people who work for the Secret Service, so they are more than capable of dragging him out bodily if it comes to that. I don't think it will because the humiliation of being dragged out is more than he could endure. What I expect is at some point, perhaps when the Electoral College votes on Dec 14th, he'll retire to Mar a Lago and not come back to the capital.
 

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What I expect is at some point, perhaps when the Electoral College votes on Dec 14th, he'll retire to Mar a Lago and not come back to the capital.
I think there's a very good chance of that.

At the very least, Trump will almost certainly not receive the Bidens at the White House and commute together with them to the Capitol for the inauguration. I don't see him attending the inauguration at all.

Don't get me wrong; Trump is duplicitous as heck, and I can certainly imagine him, even after all this crap he's throwing right now, on Inauguration Day suddenly being all smiles and doing The Thing and acting like everything is normal and all the BS around the election was just all part of hard healthy red-blooded campaigning but it's all water under the bridge now yadda yadda; I just don't think it's very likely at all. Everything he's doing is ensuring that he will never be a part of that informal "ex-presidents club" and get to do the things that our former presidents tend to do, like hanging out with each other now and then and getting invited to things; and he WILL come to regret that eventually. But right now it seems like the sting of being a one-termer is too powerful and it's all he can think about, to his detriment.
 

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Just musing about a situation back in the 14th century: there were two popes simultaneously. One at Avignon, favored (created?) by the French king, another at Rome created by the Italian cardinals, iirc.

Trump will get one of the Supreme Court justices to administer the Oath of office to him on Jan. 20 on television, same time as Biden's Oath is administered. There's nothing in the Constitution except the Oath and Trump'll continue to claim that he won the "rigged" election, when one throws out all the "illegal" votes. So we would have two presidents, one out of his head and willing to rule by means of his supporter mob; the other there by means of our honest democratic system.

Justice Roberts, should he get wind of such a thing before it happens, will bend heaven and earth, so far as he can, to stop it; it would severely damage the reputation of the Court. But particularly Alito and Thomas are twisted enough to do the deed for Trump. A Justice is not required by our Constitution, but it lends the appropriate air of a norm being honored by having a Justice lead Trump through the Oath.
No, we would only have one president. While donnie can try to grab it we actually elect someone. There is not even a situation like it was really close or one got the popular vote and the other the electoral. All he has is he is going to pout.
 

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Does the concept of tied accommodation -- that is, accommodation that goes with the job -- not exist in US law?
It does but would have to look up what the code is. We have federal jobs that come with living space. On the low end, things working in really remote areas.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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It does but would have to look up what the code is. We have federal jobs that come with living space. On the low end, things working in really remote areas.
Trump must understand the concept of tied accommodation since a lot of his employees must have it, particularly in the hotels and possibly in his residential properties, too.
 

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Here we go again...
 
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