#BYEDON 2020 - The End Better Fucking Be Near

Eunoli

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You guys are talking like its over. It probably is, but I'd give Trump a 20% chance of still getting this thing to his newly bought Justices after Michigan delays its certification past the deadline.
 

Kara Spengler

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It will be a long, drawn-out process involving multiple criminal cases. Once he and his family are in jail and their phones are taken away, his supporters will gradually fade away, like in Germany after WWII.
Frustrating a lot of people are willing to give them a pass. While I can see family members since you do not choose them I have no qualms about cutting them off from society and never looking back.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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It will be a long, drawn-out process involving multiple criminal cases. Once he and his family are in jail and their phones are taken away, his supporters will gradually fade away, like in Germany after WWII.
I don't think that's quite how it happened in Germany post WWII. Not according to Susan Neiman, certainly:


 
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Beebo Brink

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Although I'm fairly certain at this point that Biden will take office in January, I don't think the damage that Trump is wreaking will fade away. I'm concerned that this has in fact weakened American democratic institutions beyond repair in ways we have yet to catalog. The behavior of the Republican Party in enabling Trump, and more importantly in not speaking out against his crimes and norm-breaking actions, has revealed that they're not the least interested in a democratic nation. Their only concern is maintaining power by any means, and a not-insignificant portion of the population is okay with that.

That whole "consent of the governed"? They're not that into it anymore.
 

bubblesort

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I just had a disturbing thought...

We know Trump can't actually hold presidential power after Jan 20, barring some kind of act of god, right? I mean, I know it's 2020, but him staying in office after Jan 20 is really far fetched, even in 2020.

But does he actually have to leave the physical building of the White House? I'm not sure about that.

I am definitely not a lawyer, but I looked everywhere, and I found no law on the books saying that the president must give up white house when they leave office, or that they must reside in the white house, or that they must use the white house for this and that. The closest thing I found to anything even discussing the possibility of such a law is here, from a How Stuff Works article.

But it's not as if the president of the United States has to live in the White House. No law requires it.
I only ran a quick search, but this seems to hold up to casual scrutiny.

So Trump obtained residency in the White House through mere custom, not through force of law.

Does that mean he could retain residency in the White House by ignoring custom, and refusing to vacate?

Everything I've seen said about Trump staying in the White House so far has been using the term 'White House' figuratively, not literally. We know he can't retain the power of the White House, but he maybe he could hypothetically retain his residency there? Technically, that's all previous presidents have ever done. None of them ever owned it or paid rent. American presidents are all a bunch of squatters.

Biden and Trump would make the most awkward room mates, LOL
 

Eunoli

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I'm at about 80% that Biden will be seated. And just because Trump isn't doing anything but golf, don't count him out yet. There are dozens of grifters who know they are in for investigations and maybe jail who are much younger than him and much more motivated. Democracy is being trashed right now. Right wing media is making it far, far worse.

Look for the big issue to hit on Dec. 8th. This is when all the states are supposed to be certified. Likely, Michigan won't be. Those senators who flew to DC and were wined and dined and promised who knows what went home and Michigan has suddenly decided it has to audit a district that wasn't even close. They are going to try to not vote before the deadline.

Why is this important? If states resolve all disputes and certify their results by Dec. 8, the results should be insulated from further legal challenges. However, if Michigan throws a giant "We can't certify" in the loop, despite the election there not being close, Trump has a way to press forward toward his new purchases in the Supreme Court. This is where things become unknown and dangerous. We don't know if the new justices are bought and sold on this issue. We don't know if he has blackmail on them. And anyone who doesn't think he uses blackmail hasn't thought much about Lindsey Graham.

It is my hope that the voters of Michigan get their asses outside and to the state house and start calling sedition out for what it is. If they don't, we may have a serious issue.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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We don't know if he has blackmail on them. And anyone who doesn't think he uses blackmail hasn't thought much about Lindsey Graham.
I'm about 110% certain Graham [and others] are being blackmailed, I'm just not all that sure its Twitler doing the blackmailing.... or even an american citizen doing it.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I just had a disturbing thought...

We know Trump can't actually hold presidential power after Jan 20, barring some kind of act of god, right? I mean, I know it's 2020, but him staying in office after Jan 20 is really far fetched, even in 2020.

But does he actually have to leave the physical building of the White House? I'm not sure about that.

I am definitely not a lawyer, but I looked everywhere, and I found no law on the books saying that the president must give up white house when they leave office, or that they must reside in the white house, or that they must use the white house for this and that. The closest thing I found to anything even discussing the possibility of such a law is here, from a How Stuff Works article.



I only ran a quick search, but this seems to hold up to casual scrutiny.

So Trump obtained residency in the White House through mere custom, not through force of law.

Does that mean he could retain residency in the White House by ignoring custom, and refusing to vacate?

Everything I've seen said about Trump staying in the White House so far has been using the term 'White House' figuratively, not literally. We know he can't retain the power of the White House, but he maybe he could hypothetically retain his residency there? Technically, that's all previous presidents have ever done. None of them ever owned it or paid rent. American presidents are all a bunch of squatters.

Biden and Trump would make the most awkward room mates, LOL
After the new president is sworn in, his predecessor will become a private citizen again, and is thus as subject to removal from federal property as an unwanted trespasser as would anyone else be, surely?
 

bubblesort

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After the new president is sworn in, his predecessor will become a private citizen again, and is thus as subject to removal from federal property as an unwanted trespasser as would anyone else be, surely?
IDK... my casual understanding of squatter's rights in America says that it's very difficult to remove somebody from a residence, even if they don't pay rent or a mortgage. Removing one resident who doesn't own or rent the property for another resident who doesn't own or rent the property might get legally hairy. Trump has probably dealt with squatter's rights with his work in New York real estate, so he probably knows all the squatter's tricks.

Again, I'm totally not a lawyer at all, I'm just wildly speculating.
 

Innula Zenovka

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IDK... my casual understanding of squatter's rights in America says that it's very difficult to remove somebody from a residence, even if they don't pay rent or a mortgage. Removing one resident who doesn't own or rent the property for another resident who doesn't own or rent the property might get legally hairy. Trump has probably dealt with squatter's rights with his work in New York real estate, so he probably knows all the squatter's tricks.

Again, I'm totally not a lawyer at all, I'm just wildly speculating.
Scenario: Biden tells Secret Service to escort Trump off the premises.

Trump, with the assistance of Rudy Giuliani and Sydney Powell, attempts to sue Biden, claiming squatter's rights.

Courts refuse to hear the case, citing Biden's presidential immunity.
 
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IDK... my casual understanding of squatter's rights in America says that it's very difficult to remove somebody from a residence, even if they don't pay rent or a mortgage. Removing one resident who doesn't own or rent the property for another resident who doesn't own or rent the property might get legally hairy. Trump has probably dealt with squatter's rights with his work in New York real estate, so he probably knows all the squatter's tricks.

Again, I'm totally not a lawyer at all, I'm just wildly speculating.
Also speculating, but any squatters rights are matters of state law and that is federal property.
 

Kara Spengler

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Although I'm fairly certain at this point that Biden will take office in January, I don't think the damage that Trump is wreaking will fade away. I'm concerned that this has in fact weakened American democratic institutions beyond repair in ways we have yet to catalog. The behavior of the Republican Party in enabling Trump, and more importantly in not speaking out against his crimes and norm-breaking actions, has revealed that they're not the least interested in a democratic nation. Their only concern is maintaining power by any means, and a not-insignificant portion of the population is okay with that.

That whole "consent of the governed"? They're not that into it anymore.
I will never forgive donnie, the rs, and don's cult for what they have done to this country. I am not about to forget they took over my small town where I grew up which used to be as many independent parties as adults but everyone used to be civil. They threaten people I know and are related to, no matter how much those people gave to the town over the years. I got off the community list to not remind maggots, who could not reach me, that they could reach other people. They corrupted a childhood friend who is mentally slow so just does what other people say. Fuck them all to hell.
 
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Kara Spengler

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I just had a disturbing thought...

We know Trump can't actually hold presidential power after Jan 20, barring some kind of act of god, right? I mean, I know it's 2020, but him staying in office after Jan 20 is really far fetched, even in 2020.

But does he actually have to leave the physical building of the White House? I'm not sure about that.

I am definitely not a lawyer, but I looked everywhere, and I found no law on the books saying that the president must give up white house when they leave office, or that they must reside in the white house, or that they must use the white house for this and that. The closest thing I found to anything even discussing the possibility of such a law is here, from a How Stuff Works article.



I only ran a quick search, but this seems to hold up to casual scrutiny.

So Trump obtained residency in the White House through mere custom, not through force of law.

Does that mean he could retain residency in the White House by ignoring custom, and refusing to vacate?

Everything I've seen said about Trump staying in the White House so far has been using the term 'White House' figuratively, not literally. We know he can't retain the power of the White House, but he maybe he could hypothetically retain his residency there? Technically, that's all previous presidents have ever done. None of them ever owned it or paid rent. American presidents are all a bunch of squatters.

Biden and Trump would make the most awkward room mates, LOL
After jan 20 he will be trespassing.
 

Kara Spengler

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IDK... my casual understanding of squatter's rights in America says that it's very difficult to remove somebody from a residence, even if they don't pay rent or a mortgage. Removing one resident who doesn't own or rent the property for another resident who doesn't own or rent the property might get legally hairy. Trump has probably dealt with squatter's rights with his work in New York real estate, so he probably knows all the squatter's tricks.

Again, I'm totally not a lawyer at all, I'm just wildly speculating.
Squatting ends by several things, including the legal tenant asking them to leave.
 

Govi

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Just musing about a situation back in the 14th century: there were two popes simultaneously. One at Avignon, favored (created?) by the French king, another at Rome created by the Italian cardinals, iirc.

Trump will get one of the Supreme Court justices to administer the Oath of office to him on Jan. 20 on television, same time as Biden's Oath is administered. There's nothing in the Constitution except the Oath and Trump'll continue to claim that he won the "rigged" election, when one throws out all the "illegal" votes. So we would have two presidents, one out of his head and willing to rule by means of his supporter mob; the other there by means of our honest democratic system.

Justice Roberts, should he get wind of such a thing before it happens, will bend heaven and earth, so far as he can, to stop it; it would severely damage the reputation of the Court. But particularly Alito and Thomas are twisted enough to do the deed for Trump. A Justice is not required by our Constitution, but it lends the appropriate air of a norm being honored by having a Justice lead Trump through the Oath.
 
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