#BYEDON 2020 - The End Better Fucking Be Near

Rose Karuna

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This is terrifying but, yeah I see it. Militia and "Oath Keepers" are armed and quite dangerous and certainly not above bombing churches, schools and government buildings where they think Americans who are "against them and the way they think" reside. Trump has legitimized their role. So even if Biden is sworn in, there is a large faction of the country that truly believes he stole the presidency. Trump has done exactly what Mary (his cousin) predicted and that is burning down democracy in America as he's dragged out of the oval office, kicking and screaming like a toddler.
 

Archer

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THIS!! This is what I've been feeling. For the past 2 weeks, I've had this pit in my stomach that people in high places weren't taking this seriously enough. A lawyer I follow on Twitter keeps saying, don't worry, there is this this this and this process where he'll be stopped. I don't know why people still think, after 4 years of "he can't get away with this" and "there are laws against that" that haven't stopped him one bit, think that anything will at this point. It's insanity. Doing (saying) the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. We're the lemmings here, blindly following our own perceived rules right off the cliff.

Nothing is "normal" anymore. Almost half the population of this country think that what he's doing is fine with them. How can you possibly think they'll just shut up and go home now? Look at the information still being revealed about the attempt on the Michigan governor's life. It's horrifying. Do you think those few people are the only ones who are capable of pulling off something like that?

I don't know what the answer is, but I am certainly aghast that not a single Democratic Party leader is coming out strongly condemning him and the other administration people who are making big changes on their way out. Where is the anger? Is it that they don't see, or that they think that miraculously the systems will suddenly start working when they haven't worked for the past 4 years? Nobody seems to be able to stand up and be the leader this situation calls for.
 

Rose Karuna

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This is even more interesting now because my husband recently reached out to his best friend in about why they voted for Trump. They gave all the same reasons to vote for Trump that I would have given to explain why I voted for Biden, except for the tax cuts. They are both really decent and smart people and both my husband and I were struggling with why yet another person we knew and loved, supported Trump.

What we realized is that no matter how many lies he told, they believed him. We could debunk the lies all day long with "proof" and just be told that the "proof" was left wing and "Antifa" propaganda. Their "belief" in Trump is more like religion than politics because someone's "beliefs" can't be challenged in the same way that actual information can. It's emotional, not logical, so no mater how many links to Snopes and other debunking sites we could find to prove that something was a lie, it didn't matter. They [Trump Supporters] see him as some kind of savior, they believe every word he says and they follow the same batshit crazy groups that they think he does, including QAnon.

This is why, despite a Biden win of the presidency, I think we are in a very scary place in our country and that the very heart of democracy is at stake. Recently, I asked myself if I was the one who was crazy, am I the one being manipulated by a left wing media but then when I actually looked at credible sources (sources I've trusted my entire life), I can't bring my self to believe the mountain of horse shit Trump is dumping on the American people. It's batshit crazy being legitimized and that is a cult I can't join.
 

Jolene Benoir

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This is even more interesting now because my husband recently reached out to his best friend in about why they voted for Trump. They gave all the same reasons to vote for Trump that I would have given to explain why I voted for Biden, except for the tax cuts. They are both really decent and smart people and both my husband and I were struggling with why yet another person we knew and loved, supported Trump.

What we realized is that no matter how many lies he told, they believed him. We could debunk the lies all day long with "proof" and just be told that the "proof" was left wing and "Antifa" propaganda. Their "belief" in Trump is more like religion than politics because someone's "beliefs" can't be challenged in the same way that actual information can. It's emotional, not logical, so no mater how many links to Snopes and other debunking sites we could find to prove that something was a lie, it didn't matter. They [Trump Supporters] see him as some kind of savior, they believe every word he says and they follow the same batshit crazy groups that they think he does, including QAnon.

This is why, despite a Biden win of the presidency, I think we are in a very scary place in our country and that the very heart of democracy is at stake. Recently, I asked myself if I was the one who was crazy, am I the one being manipulated by a left wing media but then when I actually looked at credible sources (sources I've trusted my entire life), I can't bring my self to believe the mountain of horse shit Trump is dumping on the American people. It's batshit crazy being legitimized and that is a cult I can't join.
Yes, it's damn hard. When I was arguing with my sister, who went down the rabbit hole super fast, she said to me in relation to the media, "I thought you were smarter than that." I bit my tongue and continued.

I explained that the MSM, yep she already has that down, has been around for decades, in some cases like the NY Times over a century; that these are the people we have trusted to give us the news for so very long; that they gave us Walter Kronkite. But yes, she did begin to make me doubt everything I know. Now, my sister only has an 8th grade education. I don't mean that to say she is stupid, far from it, just lacking formal education. She never learned about world history, American history. She doesn't have that same fear that history is repeating itself, not exactly of course, but in its own new way.

We see people so devoted to Trump that they lie in the hospital screaming about fake news, that the virus is a hoax and so on. We see them willing to give up democracy itself in this cult worship. I will never understand it, because he has NEVER held any sort of appeal for me. I have tried, believe me, over the last number of years to find ONE single virtuous thing about him. I have been unable to do so. People that I care about, aside from my sister, apparently do see good in him. I'll never understand it.

As for asking ourselves if we are crazy, isn't that gaslighting? I never knew much about narcissism until he came around. I knew of it in a vague manner, never truly understanding it. Oh boy, I've had a crash course. Isn't a huge part of it making those around you doubt reality? To question everything you've ever believed in, the truth itself? I think that holds true, only it's at a country level now, not just a small group of people. I think I've read that when people deal with narcissists, they either capitulate to their desires, their truth or they rebel and hold true to what they know, their experiences, the truth. So, half of the country is in the former group and half is in the latter.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I'm not sure about this but I suspect that our difficulties with people who are devoted to Trump are precisely the difficulties we'd have with a friend or loved one who was, whether they realised it or not, in an abusive relationship.

Under those circumstances, there's no reasoning with the friend or loved one because it's not about reason but feelings and desires, whether acknowledged or not.

In my experience, all you can do is remain there for them, not seeking to argue them out of the relationship but gently, though firmly, challenging them when they try to offer excuses for their abuser's behaviour, or reasons why they stay with him or her.

Telling them they're idiots or fighting with them certainly does no good, or not unless the abuser has somehow persuaded them to try to harm you, or someone close to you both, in some way, whether directly or indirectly.
 

Plurabelle Laszlo

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THIS!! This is what I've been feeling. For the past 2 weeks, I've had this pit in my stomach that people in high places weren't taking this seriously enough. A lawyer I follow on Twitter keeps saying, don't worry, there is this this this and this process where he'll be stopped. I don't know why people still think, after 4 years of "he can't get away with this" and "there are laws against that" that haven't stopped him one bit, think that anything will at this point. It's insanity. Doing (saying) the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. We're the lemmings here, blindly following our own perceived rules right off the cliff.

Nothing is "normal" anymore. Almost half the population of this country think that what he's doing is fine with them. How can you possibly think they'll just shut up and go home now? Look at the information still being revealed about the attempt on the Michigan governor's life. It's horrifying. Do you think those few people are the only ones who are capable of pulling off something like that?

I don't know what the answer is, but I am certainly aghast that not a single Democratic Party leader is coming out strongly condemning him and the other administration people who are making big changes on their way out. Where is the anger? Is it that they don't see, or that they think that miraculously the systems will suddenly start working when they haven't worked for the past 4 years? Nobody seems to be able to stand up and be the leader this situation calls for.
Add to all that that Biden is starting his presidency at an extremely difficult point in history. Whether the vaccine will be on the market within weeks or not, the pandemic is by far not over, it will still peak, lockdowns will be necessary and even more people will lose loved ones and suffer economically. It will be extremely difficult and time consuming to rebuild what Trump has destroyed in four years - especially after they effectively sabotaged the transition. There will be a lot of bumps in the road, there will probably be social unrest.

And Trump & co. will keep their propaganda machine rolling and blame democrats for the crisis and for stealing the election. So many of his supporters are already deeply radicalized. Looking at it from European perspective, it often feels absurd how idiots like Jon Voight can seriously claim that fighting democrats is fighting Satan, how Rudy Giuliani simply claims that Democrats are 'evil'. But on the other hand, from European perspective, we know pretty well how demagogues, conspiracy theories and propaganda can polarize and destroy societies, and demonizing and dehumanizing your political opponents is an integral part of it.

I really really wish that they are too stupid and clumsy to go through with their coup, and that maybe even his supporters get finally tired of watching his tantrums. But I am not as optimistic as I would like to be.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Jolene Benoir

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Regarding the transition, I tend to think it is deeper than just not accepting reality. I think the goal is to cause real harm both to incoming President Biden and the public.

Let's just say that Biden faces some sort of catastrophic loss of life in some terrorist event, Trump will be right on his ass after having not letting him see intelligence reports. It would be used to take even more rights away as we grieve.

The second that the presidency changes hands, Trump will declare this virus, which I'm taking to calling the Trump virus, is out of control, after 11 months at that time of denial, obsfucation, outright targeted biological warfare, that it is Biden's fault. Yes, around half of us will believe this complete garbage. The bigger thing in my mind is the damage, pain, hurt, death that has already happened and even more might result out of the petty vengeance of an empty man.

I hope to never see those days, but fear that I may well.
 

Beebo Brink

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Again, people keep trying to interpret Trump's behavior from a normal perspective and being mystified by it.

Trump is a narcissist. The entire universe revolves around him. So how does he punish the Universe when it doesn't treat him with the respect he deserves? He removes himself from their presence. In his eyes, this is inflicting a punitive measure on others, who are now deprived of his august self.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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Again, people keep trying to interpret Trump's behavior from a normal perspective and being mystified by it.

Trump is a narcissist. The entire universe revolves around him. So how does he punish the Universe when it doesn't treat him with the respect he deserves? He removes himself from their presence. In his eyes, this is inflicting a punitive measure on others, who are now deprived of his august self.
This reminds me of dealing with a [restrospectively] a bad relationship. The person may or may not have been a narcissist, but was definitely severely bipolar. Swinging from geeful cruelty, to a normal person to severe depression.
The reason why this reminds me of it is that there was a lot of gaslighting in that relationship, reality being changed under me [and reality is something I've got a hard enough grasp on my best days], and basically a lot of stuff that was all about them, including making everything about others, to get their way...

Also, its possible there is more than one mental problem in that head [I do think was the case with this person from my life] and I'd almost say there is some depression going on too.

ETA: Not excusing it, but thinking maybe the problem isn't just his usual 'lovely' personality, but having to face a reality he doesn't wish to; that he's old, and just not wanted anymore.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Again, people keep trying to interpret Trump's behavior from a normal perspective and being mystified by it.

Trump is a narcissist. The entire universe revolves around him. So how does he punish the Universe when it doesn't treat him with the respect he deserves? He removes himself from their presence. In his eyes, this is inflicting a punitive measure on others, who are now deprived of his august self.
He's in a situation he's completely unequipped to handle -- for once, he can't simply walk away from from the disastrous consequences of his failures, and it's happening to him in a glare of international publicity.

The American people have said, "You're fired!" and now, by automatic process of law, the deadline approaches when official confirmation that he's a loser, and the consequences that will follow from this for him and his family in, at the very least, the New York criminal and civil courts are inescapable.

Since Trump is pretty much what you'd get if you asked Siri for the anti-type of the sort of stoicism extolled by Rudyard Kipling's If, it's hardly surprising he's retreated into his own, less threatening, private reality to try to forget what's coming.

ETA: Trump and his three oldest children can't help but be wondering whether they can all trust each other, when their liberty, property and (for the children) inheritance are all at stake, as soon they may very well be.
 
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