Brexit.

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread:


ETA: The full story

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Top UK government lawyer quits over Brexit withdrawal agreement changes | Financial Times

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Two officials with knowledge of the situation told the Financial Times that the Treasury solicitor and permanent secretary of the Government Legal Department was leaving his position due to a dispute with Downing Street over its plans to challenge parts of the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

Those close to Sir Jonathan said he was “very unhappy” about the decision to overwrite parts of the Northern Ireland protocol, part of the 2019 withdrawal agreement, with new powers in the UK internal market bill.

One person familiar with the events leading up to Sir Jonathan’s decision to resign said it had followed months of tension over the handling of the Brexit negotiations and legal disagreements with Suella Braverman, the attorney-general.

Ms Braverman was appointed last February after the previous attorney-general, Geoffrey Cox, was sacked by Boris Johnson for making what one insider described as “uncomfortable noises” about the importance of abiding by international law.

Sir Jonathan is understood to have been dissatisfied with Ms Braverman’s initial interpretation of the legal implications of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, and requested official advice from the government law officers — Ms Braverman, solicitor general Michael Ellis and the secretary of state for justice, Robert Buckland.

Two people familiar with the discussions said questions were raised over whether government plans to override the Brexit withdrawal agreement were in breach of the ministerial code that obliges ministers to follow the law, including international law.

 

[Sid]

BoJo's government is showing mainly incompetence when it comes to Brexit.
They seem to consider it more like a game, where the outcome doesn't really matter. Like playing poker with a maximum cap of €0.50 per game.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

BoJo's government is showing mainly incompetence when it comes to Brexit.
They seem to consider it more like a game, where the outcome doesn't really matter. Like playing poker with a maximum cap of €0.50 per game.

I think what they're trying to do is leave it as long as possible, while making a huge commotion to convince their supporters that they're standing up to these bullies in Brussels, and then accept whatever deal the EU is prepared to offer, while hailing it as a huge success for Boris' diplomacy.

There will then be huge cries of "betrayal" from the likes of Mark Francois and the ERG, but the government can ride that out -- they've given themselves (been given by their own side) sufficient power to ignore parliamentary objections if they want to, and they know that Labour won't do anything to cause a deal to fail when the only alternative is no deal, and then after January 1st, it's history, at least until after the next elections.

I just keep coming back to the point that Johnson is unencumbered by principles or the sense of shame, and I can't believe he wants to add to his problems with Covid-19 by precipitating a no-deal Brexit, but with this shower, nothing is certain, and there's lots to go wrong.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Higher education in the UK is morally bankrupt. I’m taking my research millions and I’m off | Ulf Schmidt

After 25 years I feel Britain has broken my trust. I’m one of many academics who now see their future in Europe

www.theguardian.com

 

[Arkady Arkright]

W.... F.....

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Senior Tories urge ministers to scrap 'illegal' Brexit rule plan

Government ignored legal advice over proposed withdrawal agreement changes

www.theguardian.com

The former minister George Freeman said the supreme court would be “preparing to remind ministers that intentionally breaking the law – even in a very specific and limited way – is, well, unlawful.”

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Higher education in the UK is morally bankrupt. I’m taking my research millions and I’m off | Ulf Schmidt

After 25 years I feel Britain has broken my trust. I’m one of many academics who now see their future in Europe

www.theguardian.com

To recapitulate we've got here a German, who was working and living for a longer while in the UK, going back to Germany due to Brexit. That's something many Brits would still applaud for whole heartedly.

 

[Sid]

Brexit bill criticised as 'eye-watering' breach of international law

Downing Street defends bill after outcry from Brussels, legal experts and some Tory MPs

www.theguardian.com

The government has unveiled plans to give ministers sweeping powers to “disapply” part of the Brexit deal that Boris Johnson signed in January, in a move that has shocked Brussels, threatens to provoke a rebellion by Conservative MPs and caused Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the US House of Representatives, to warn there will be “absolutely no chance” of a US-UK trade deal if it presses ahead with the move.

The way Pelosi reacts, should have been the EU reaction as well. No EU-UK trade deal if it presses ahead with the move.

Cabinet ministers have admitted the bill breaks international law. But Johnson’s spokesman defended the change on Wednesday, saying it was a necessary clarification of an agreement that had been rushed through in January.

Eh....... who were it again that delayed talks over and over again, playing the national sport of kicking cans down the road?
And, if even politicians don't read things before they sign someting off .......

The former prime minister Sir John Major said breaking international law would come with a price that could never be recovered.
“For generations, Britain’s word solemnly given has been accepted by friend and foe. Our signature on any treaty or agreement has been sacrosanct,” he said. “Over the last century, as our military strength has dwindled, our word has retained its power. If we lose our reputation for honouring the promises we make, we will have lost something beyond price that may never be regained.”

Hear, hear.

 

[Grandma Bates]

Brexit bill criticised as 'eye-watering' breach of international law

Downing Street defends bill after outcry from Brussels, legal experts and some Tory MPs

www.theguardian.com

The way Pelosi reacts, should have been the EU reaction as well. No EU-UK trade deal if it presses ahead with the move.

The EU is in the middle of active negotiations (such as they are). It is not in their interests to provoke or push the British side further away from them. The EU are left to the whims of the current dysfunction in Britain and have no option but to simply wait. By waiting they are essentially refusing to work with Britain without provoking more backlash against the EU, and patience and waiting are the best long term option. The sad result is that Johnson gets to stew in a pot of his own making, and for added measure Speaker Pelosi is doing the EU's dirty work for them. At this point uncertainty hurts the UK more than the EU, and the EU member states move a step closer to quiet resignation that it is time to just move on. This is an even worse outcome for the UK.

 

[Khamon]

Hear, hear.

Great Britain’s sacrosanct word is highly overrated. An agreement signed by representatives of the United States of America has never been worth a raw fart. We’ve proven our treachery over and again but other countries have continued to negotiate and trade with us through the centuries despite our reputation.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Great Britain’s sacrosanct word is highly overrated. An agreement signed by representatives of the United States of America has never been worth a raw fart. We’ve proven our treachery over and again but other countries have continued to negotiate and trade with us through the centuries despite our reputation.

Well this tendency for treachery is for sure something which has been inherited and passed over by the British Empire to the USA. So basically the Brits are negotiating with themselves right now. Isn't this ironic?

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

Well this tendency for treachery is for sure something which has been inherited and passed over by the British Empire to the USA. So basically the Brits are negotiating with themselves right now. Isn't this ironic?

I'm fairly sure its not just a British Empire thing that we got.

----------

Also, to be fair, our biggest strength is also our biggest weakness; its usually because we've mostly changed out our entire Government.

 

[Fionalein]

The EU are left to the whims of the current dysfunction in Britain and have no option but to simply wait.

That's simply wrong, we could stall on purpose and have them negotiate with us in a much weakened position after several month of "No Deal" Brexit... Yeah we would loose a bit too but it would cost us much less in the long term as Britain would be much more ready to accept whatever we want of them after throwing themselves against a wall in their tantrum. I guess by continuing to hold out the helping hand to the raging British Trump-Wannabe no matter how uncooperative he becomes the EU tries to gain the moral high ground.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Sid]

I guess by continuing to hold out the helping hand to the raging British Trump-Wannabe no matter how uncooperative he becomes the EU tries to gain the moral high ground.

Yup, that's what they are doing, but it is not the way I would handle it.
They made us look like fools waiting for them for years during the Brexit process and now they try to play that card again.
Enough is enough, if the Tory government wants to trow their country and their people under the bus, so be it. We have shown more than enough patients with them.
Probably a good thing I'm not in charge.

 

[Fionalein]

Yup, that's what they are doing, but it is not the way I would handle it.
They made us look like fools waiting for them for years during the Brexit process and now they try to play that card again.
Enough is enough, if the Tory government wants to trow their country and their people under the bus, so be it. We have shown more than enough patients with them.
Probably a good thing I'm not in charge.

They can't be complete assholes if their secret materplan has independant Scotland returning into the EU...

 

[Sid]

Great Britain’s sacrosanct word is highly overrated. An agreement signed by representatives of the United States of America has never been worth a raw fart. We’ve proven our treachery over and again but other countries have continued to negotiate and trade with us through the centuries despite our reputation.

The USA is a continent sized military and economical powerful country.
So most other countries have very little chance to put the USA on ignore or hold. The EU included.
The UK only thinks it is a continent sized military and economical powerful country.
Europe can afford to do without them in a free trade market. Let them pay the tariffs, let us check their lorries and ships. The UK will find out soon enough that they are only a mid sized European country. Why stay friendly if they are already willingly try to screw us (again)?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

This may be wishful thinking on my part, but I can't help but remember that this time last year, we had Johnson and Cummings trying to have the Queen prorogue Parliament and the matter going to the Supreme Court, all to provide cover when Johnson eventually had to ask the EU for the extension for which he'd sworn he'd never ask -- "die in a ditch" was the phrase, I think, and that went the same way as all his other promises, whether to the public or his wives.

So I'm wondering if the plan this time isn't something similar -- shock and awe the simpletons on his back benches and the Conservative Party as a whole with this contempt for convention and law, and then have it struck down, whether by the Lords or the Supreme Court, so he can then complain he did his best but was blindsided at the last moment by unelected enemies of the people, so he's reluctantly accepting whatever the EU are offering.

Then that's over with, at the end of the year, and he can start thinking about announcing he's done what he set out to, and step down to leave Rishi Sunak or Michael Gove or someone to pick up the pieces -- notoriously he wanted to become Prime Minister, and he wants to have been the PM, but he clearly doesn't enjoy the job while he has it, and he's no good at it, and he's been ill and he's got yet another new family demanding his attention, so why not?

I just can't believe he wants a no-deal Brexit any more than does anyone else other than a few fanatics, and Johnson can hardly be accused of possessing any particular political principles, let alone being fanatical about them.

But I've been consistently mistaken in my political predictions for the last five years, in which I not alone, so I'm just waiting to see what actually takes place, since it'll happen anyway, whether or not I think it either should.

ETA: There is a very formidable revolt on the Conservative side, it seems, with Johnson facing not only opposition from the pro-Remain Conservatives still left in the parliamentary party, but also from people on the anti-European right who, their views on Brexit notwithstanding, can't countenance this shocking misconduct.

Brexit: Conservative rebels could yet throw Boris Johnson off track

More striking is the nature of the revolt amongst Brexiteers - including a former Conservative leader and chancellor.

news.sky.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The USA is a continent sized military and economical powerful country.
So most other countries have very little chance to put the USA on ignore or hold. The EU included.
The UK only thinks it is a continent sized military and economical powerful country.
Europe can afford to do without them in a free trade market. Let them pay the tariffs, let us check their lorries and ships. The UK will find out soon enough that they are only a mid sized European country. Why stay friendly if they are already willingly try to screw us (again)?

I'm horrified at what my government is trying to do, even though I am not sure they're actually serious about it, but I think that the EU will be very aware that the EU as whole can reasonably well afford to do without the UK in a free trade market, some individual EU members aren't in so fortunate a position -- think how much of the Republic of Ireland's trade is with the UK, and how much of the rest of their trade with the EU currently goes through the UK in either direction.

Yes, obviously alternative routes can be developed, but not immediately and not without considerable disruption in the meantime.