Brexit.

Innula Zenovka

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"Reality, meet Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson, meet reality. I don't think you've ever met before."
Almost certainly they haven't, and Johnson doesn't seem much to care for reality, either:

According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.

At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”

The exchange, according to one EU official, was part of an abrupt “learning curve” for Mr Johnson in his first face-to-face meeting with Mr Barnier and Mr Juncker since he took office.

Another official describes the prime minister gradually “slumping” in his chair as the reality of the UK’s negotiating position and the limited time left to strike an agreement dawned on him. “He wasn’t used to hearing it”, added the official.

Mr Juncker told his college of commissioners in Strasbourg on Tuesday that the Luxembourg lunch was the first time that “Boris Johnson understood the meaning of the single market”. A Number 10 official rejected descriptions of the lunch as “nonsense”.

Although the EU has repeated ad nauseam that the UK’s partial solution to customs checks is not a credible alternative to the legally operational backstop, that message does not seemed to have been relayed to Number 10.
 

Kara Spengler

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You can be as fucking thick as can be, but if you went to Eton it doesn't seem to matter.

Of course, if there are food shortages post-brexit, we can always eat the rich...
Well, technically it would not be canibalism I guess ...
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Finland has now got a say on Brexit - I guess Kara is going to find that one most interesting due to that.

Antti Rinne, prime minister of Finland and at the moment acting president of the EU, told the press that the UK has time to produce the written proposals until end of September. If not, then it's over in his words.

 

Kara Spengler

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Finland has now got a say on Brexit - I guess Kara is going to find that one most interesting due to that.

Antti Rinne, prime minister of Finland and at the moment acting president of the EU, told the press that the UK has time to produce the written proposals until end of September. If not, then it's over in his words.

Yes, they have a list of their goals for their EU presidency out there somewhere. It sounds like they are doing things like stressing the rule of law so the UK may not do so well if they ask for an extension without a plan, especially if that plan does not include a vote. Not that Finns particularly like confrontation (or any social encounter for that matter) but when backed into a corner will use it to gain strength from the encounter.

edit: Google sisu if you want to get an idea what they will do.
 
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From what I've read on this side of the pond a hard brexit is inevitable Oct 31. What possible agreement can the UK give that would make it worthwhile for the EU to give them an extension?
 

Innula Zenovka

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From what I've read on this side of the pond a hard brexit is inevitable Oct 31. What possible agreement can the UK give that would make it worthwhile for the EU to give them an extension?
The assumption here -- which must, I think, be shared by the EU27 -- is that a General Election, quite possibly resulting in a change of government, will be the inevitable outcome of a postponement, just as it will equally be the inevitable consequence of a no-deal Brexit.

That is, there is no possibility of the current parliament agreeing to a deal before October 31.

The assurance, therefore, is given not by the government -- for no one will believe much they say about the EU and Brexit any more -- but by the fact that an extension in order to hold an almost immediate general election is the only way to resolve the current impasse and represents the only remaining chance of avoiding a no-deal Brexit, which would be a disaster for both sides in the negotiations, and of achieving either a mutually acceptable Withdrawal Agreement or (I hope) the withdrawal of the A50 notification altogether.

More generally, it represents the only way to avoid political events the UK swirling completely out of control and unleashing something very unpleasant and very dangerous over here, probably with very severe repercussions not only for the UK but also for much of the EU, and also for the world economy.

It really feels to me as if we're now in June or early July 1914, on the verge not of a land war in Europe, of course, but dangerously close to the edge of something equally destructive for the whole continent if we don't draw back.

Refusing an extension the opposition have managed to force Johnson to request would play right into the hands of Johnson, Farage, Trump and Putin, and the consequences would not stop there.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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It really feels to me as if we're now in June or early July 1914, on the verge not of a land war in Europe, of course, but dangerously close to the edge of something equally destructive for the whole continent if we don't draw back.
I disagree; it feels more like the dawn of a new black friday, like in 25/10/1929. But contrary to 1929 you can see it miles ahead from coming, and the HMS Britannia still refuses stubbornly to change its course, leading to the inevitable crash.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Farage ranting about the "pip squeak prime minister of Luxemburg", becoming wealthier being outside the European empire amongst other things. So the new spin is that the EU fears the UK becoming more competetive and wealthier outside the EU, and therefore tries to prevent it:

 

detrius

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Did you have to post that tweet here?

It's not as if there's anything new about Farage making an ass out of himself again.
 
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Kara Spengler

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Did you have to post that tweet here?

It's not as if there's anything new about Farage making an ass out of himself again.
He seems to have a goal to take down as many governments as possible. First the UK, then being a proxy for donnie (the looks on the faces of donnie's isolationist followers when brexit got mentioned were priceless though), gumming up the wheels of the EU, now he is attacking Luxembourg.
 
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Khamon

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So the new spin is that the EU fears the UK becoming more competetive and wealthier outside the EU, and therefore tries to prevent it
This was the old spin. This was the spin that pushed the vote. The English population at large still seem to believe this spin.
 
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OrinB

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Did you have to post that tweet here?

It's not as if there's anything new about Farage making an ass out of himself again.
He gets way too much media and air time for someone who has every intention of fucking up politics. I'm guessing he has most of the worlds anti-democracy advocates passing him back handers somewhere along the line. I can't believe for a second that his per diem handouts from the EU fund his life.