WTF Border patrol Facebook group smears Latinx pols, jokes about migrant deaths, and more

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
2,316
SL Rez
2002
Uh? While I'm never too sure what people mean by "neoliberal" other than as a generally hostile political characterization, it usually has something to do with the free movement of goods and a common customs and regulatory regime, either of which Trump seems particularly enthusiastic about.
You are reading him entirely wrong; Trump is neoliberal to the very core of his being, and he's not against the free movement of goods at all. What he is against though are multilateral agreements, which he wants to replace with bilateral agreements on his own, so giving the USA quite more importance and influence again.

Just look at what he did with NAFTA - he cancelled it and renegotiated it. That's basically the blue print of what he is trying to achieve.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Brenda Archer

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
6,070
SLU Posts
18459
You are reading him entirely wrong; Trump is neoliberal to the very core of his being, and he's not against the free movement of goods at all. What he is against though are multilateral agreements, which he wants to replace with bilateral agreements on his own, so giving the USA quite more importance and influence again.

Just look at what he did with NAFTA - he cancelled it and renegotiated it. That's basically the blue print of what he is trying to achieve.
How many economists or political thinkers who are generally regarded as "neoliberal" argue in favour of Trump's bilateral trade agreements vs multilateral ones like NAFTA or the various EU treaties?

You may well be correct -- as I suggested, I'm never too sure what people mean by "neoliberalism" other than "something I dislike" but I've never before seen it used this way, quite possibly because it's one of those political terms that causes me to switch off pretty quickly, since it's generally used in contexts where it simply obscures whatever point is being made. I am just trying to understand what you mean by "neoliberalism" in this context and wondering which economists advocate the Trumpian version (other than people on his payroll).
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Ashiri

Kamilah Hauptmann

A bit of a wanker
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
6,189
Location
Cat Country (Can't Stop Here)
SL Rez
2002
Side note - I don't understand why it was necessary to invent the odd term Latinx and not just use Latin.
This is where I Latinsplain to a guy named Cristiano. 🤡

It's supposed to be more encompassing and inclusive, I gather.

There's a fair bit of difference between say, Argentinians, former Gran Columbia, Guatemalans, and Mexicans. Don't get a Brazilian started on being asked if they speak Spanish in Brazil.
 

Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
5,248
Location
SL: November RL: DC
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
December, 2008
SLU Posts
23289
Yes, I know all of this - just not sure why they had to make up a bullshit title like Latinx when Latin is just as encompassing.
Not being a Spanish linguist expert maybe it makes more sense? With both words denoting gender by which vowel they use (as with many other words) you would still need something there. If nothing someone would want to place one or the other there. By it being an explicitly non-vowel there is something there but it does not say which. That is, unless latinxa or latinxo are valid Spanish words?
 

Jolene Benoir

Hello World
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,293
Location
Minnesnowta
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Dec 2010
Yes, I know all of this - just not sure why they had to make up a bullshit title like Latinx when Latin is just as encompassing.
I am just a dumb anglo but I thought it was because some people object to the spanish language separation of words according to gender, i.e. latino and latina, though that isn't the best example because every language separates like that such as man/woman, boy/girl but more that every noun has an accorded gender tag.

Shouldn't probably have to be said, but I'm sure my understanding of it isn't exactly nuanced or clear, nor am I a member of groups who object to current status.

i am positive it was explained in "One Day At A Time", but I still am not sure I understand it correctly.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Cindy Claveau

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
2,316
SL Rez
2002
You may well be correct -- as I suggested, I'm never too sure what people mean by "neoliberalism" other than "something I dislike" but I've never before seen it used this way, quite possibly because it's one of those political terms that causes me to switch off pretty quickly, since it's generally used in contexts where it simply obscures whatever point is being made. I am just trying to understand what you mean by "neoliberalism" in this context and wondering which economists advocate the Trumpian version (other than people on his payroll).
Neoliberalism: what Margaret Thatcher did to the UK. Well known tools of it are busting unions, creating a new poor working class, dismantling worker's rights, lowering the income a lot, lowering the taxation of companies and the rich a lot, privatisation of public infrastructure because "the market knows best" and "the state is a bad businessman", lowering all kinds of different standards as well, exporting jobs to low income countries, the rise of the financial sector as the primary influence, adaptation of the rest of the economy under the principles of the financial sector, shareholder-value-oriented steeringship of companies, the creation of big social imbalance between poor and rich, since the average loan was unable to keep up with the productivity increases, a global competition on locations, ever increasing national debt.

What Trump does might not find the approval of economists, though for example when he's critisising Germany there are some, e.g. below:


On political scale though there are think thanks who do approve, the topic here is decoupling. China has created a program named "China 2025", which means that in some feature technology markets China wants to become the global leader by then, and the USA want to prevent that. It makes also from a power perspective quite much sense, because when just creating bilateral agreements the conditions are most likely more in favor for the USA, then when signing multilateral agreements.

The whole trade war with China is not so much about the trade imbalance, but exactly about this decoupling.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Brenda Archer

Brenda Archer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
2,135
Location
Arizona
SL Rez
2005
Joined SLU
Sept 2007
SLU Posts
12005
The social media habits of law enforcement are being exposed by investigative reporting

Last month the Phoenix New Times followed up on a Buzzfeed report on the Plain View Project, a database created by a team of Philadelphia attorneys in an effort to catalog bigotry and racism among police officers nationwide on social media. Phoenix Cops Bash Muslims, Call Black People Thugs in Shocking Facebook Posts:

The database includes 282 posts from current and former Phoenix police officers.
Now, a month later, ProPublica reports on a Secret Border Patrol Facebook Group Where Agents Joke About Migrant Deaths and Post Sexist Memes:

Members of a secret Facebook group for current and former Border Patrol agents joked about the deaths of migrants, discussed throwing burritos at Latino members of Congress visiting a detention facility in Texas on Monday and posted a vulgar illustration depicting Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: Ryanna Enfield

Cristiano

Full Frontal Nerdity
Admin
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
3,124
SL Rez
2002
Joined SLU
Nov 2003
SLU Posts
35836
Side note: I think Latinx can about as a gender neutral form of Latino/Latina. It seems to be preferred by a lot of folks these days.
I get that it's gender neutral, but so is Latin - I just don't know why they used the odd Latinx - it's awkward looking and sounding.
 
  • 1Agree
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Tirellia and Ashiri

Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
5,248
Location
SL: November RL: DC
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
December, 2008
SLU Posts
23289
I am just a dumb anglo but I thought it was because some people object to the spanish language separation of words according to gender, i.e. latino and latina, though that isn't the best example because every language separates like that such as man/woman, boy/girl but more that every noun has an accorded gender tag.

Shouldn't probably have to be said, but I'm sure my understanding of it isn't exactly nuanced or clear, nor am I a member of groups who object to current status.

i am positive it was explained in "One Day At A Time", but I still am not sure I understand it correctly.
Actually, no. Finnish, for a random example, does not even have gendered pronouns. To give some examples of things in other languages:


Oh, and this one is relevant for gender with words:

 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Aribeth Zelin

Jolene Benoir

Hello World
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,293
Location
Minnesnowta
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Dec 2010
FWIW, I see Trump as a merchantilist rather than a liberal of any kind. And also a fascist.
Heh. I just see him as a corrupt, thoroughly transactional pos, with no care or desire to learn a single thing nor look out for anything in this world but himself and his pockets. He's perfectly willing to go along and get along with other corrupt individuals. He's all about aggrandizing himself justified or not.

I don't think he subscribes to any particular ideology. He could just as easily have been manipulated by those of a different persuasion given the right compliments about himself. He believes in nothing but himself. There's no ideology we can say he subscribes to other than that he's the very best person ever created on this Earth and he is a gift to mankind.
 

Jolene Benoir

Hello World
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,293
Location
Minnesnowta
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Dec 2010
Actually, no. Finnish, for a random example, does not even have gendered pronouns. To give some examples of things in other languages:


Oh, and this one is relevant for gender with words:


I am not sure what you are saying here or why you are saying, "actually, no". We're not talking about Finnish. We're talking about Spanish.

nvm. I get it. I should have been more specific and said "Most" languages not every language.
 
Last edited:

Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
5,248
Location
SL: November RL: DC
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
December, 2008
SLU Posts
23289
I am not sure what you are saying here or why you are saying, "actually, no". We're not talking about Finnish. We're talking about Spanish.
" because every language separates like that such as man/woman,"

Not sure if you missed the edit where I added a more relevant vid in that series but not every language separates words by gender.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Jolene Benoir

Jolene Benoir

Hello World
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,293
Location
Minnesnowta
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
Dec 2010
" because every language separates like that such as man/woman,"

Not sure if you missed the edit where I added a more relevant vid in that series but not every language separates words by gender.
Yep, got it belatedly. See edit.
 
  • 1Hug
Reactions: Kara Spengler

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
6,070
SLU Posts
18459
Neoliberalism: what Margaret Thatcher did to the UK. Well known tools of it are busting unions, creating a new poor working class, dismantling worker's rights, lowering the income a lot, lowering the taxation of companies and the rich a lot, privatisation of public infrastructure because "the market knows best" and "the state is a bad businessman", lowering all kinds of different standards as well, exporting jobs to low income countries, the rise of the financial sector as the primary influence, adaptation of the rest of the economy under the principles of the financial sector, shareholder-value-oriented steeringship of companies, the creation of big social imbalance between poor and rich, since the average loan was unable to keep up with the productivity increases, a global competition on locations, ever increasing national debt.

What Trump does might not find the approval of economists, though for example when he's critisising Germany there are some, e.g. below:


On political scale though there are think thanks who do approve, the topic here is decoupling. China has created a program named "China 2025", which means that in some feature technology markets China wants to become the global leader by then, and the USA want to prevent that. It makes also from a power perspective quite much sense, because when just creating bilateral agreements the conditions are most likely more in favor for the USA, then when signing multilateral agreements.

The whole trade war with China is not so much about the trade imbalance, but exactly about this decoupling.
But Margaret Thatcher, being a monetarist and follower of the theories of Milton Friedman and the like, was all about removing barriers to free trade as much as possible, that being what free-market monetarist is all about. Artificial trade barriers were simply nasty things imposed by the state to protect inefficient practices, almost as bad trying to reduce unemployment.

Honestly, "neo-liberal" seems a hopelessly vague term if you can make the policies of both Margaret Thatcher and Donald Trump fit into it.
 

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
521
SL Rez
2007
Trump is up and foremost a prime example of a neoliberal politician.
I strongly disagree. Trump's trade war is one of several very clear examples of him deviating from free-market philosophy into policies that are much more fascist. The Principle of Comparative Advantage might be the proudest accomplishment of libertarian economists, but something fascists never believed. I think many liberals have failed to realize that Trump has actually defied and enraged a lot of Wall Street elites to escalate his trade war. I know some super capitalists were okay with standing up to China, but are scratching their heads about how he gave the same treatment to friendlier nations.

Trump's hatred for big social media companies and immigration are also good litmus tests of where fascists differ from libertarians and neoliberals.

Finally, Judge Andrew Napolitano is a good example of an actual neoliberal, who was extremely critical of Brett Kavanaugh's record. Reason magazine also really hated him for his record, independent of the allegations against him.

I think the gap between neoliberal policies and nazi like policies is bigger than you say, but Trump is already much closer to fascism than neoliberalism.

Plus also magaites will try saying nazis were socialists (of course they could not be further from the truth).
Mussolini's wikipedia page has a very interesting history of how fascism broke off from marxism. Mussolini was originally a socialist, but was kicked out of the Italian socialist party for supporting the war against Germany (WWI). Real, leftist marxism thinks the working class of the world should unite, but Mussolini eventually decided that his Italian national identity was much more important than class. I think Hitler kind of followed a similar development. So I guess maybe the way I'd summarize and over simplify my responses to Bartholomew and you is something like:

marxism = working people of the world unite.
neoliberalism = Capitalists of the world unite.
fascism = My country first, fuck the rest of the world.

I'm over simplifying a bit, but my point is that these are different things, and Trump has the most in common with the third by far.