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Jopsy Pendragon

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Do any of us really believe Trump is a billionaire? I sure don't.

It's no choice between the two of them for me. Trump is an ego-driven child acting as a sock-puppet for hostile forces foreign and domestic. He's damaging our republic internally and externally, especially with his utter failure to adequately staff our state department. Our relevancy is slipping, and our power with it. Carrying the biggest stick is simply not enough anymore, not when other nations have nukes.

Bloomberg may very well be evil, but deliberate rather than reactionary. He doesn't seem likely to cave to evangelical nut-cases, which is good for LGBTQ+ but on the other hand, he's probably no friend to the lower-middle class and below.

At this point, I'd vote for a cartoon character so long as they rip out the theocratic god-bothering constitution-ignoring sleeper agents that the Trump administration has been shitting into all levels of government.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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1) The Dems as a party are not going to support him if he breaks the law. Impeachment would be removal.
4) He's not going to turn the presidency into a cash cow. He doesn't need it.
These are very optimistic. Type A rich dudes will do a lot of unexpected stuff for a 'win'. And the D party is like herding cats.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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That's kind of my point. No one is ever going to grab hold of the Dems and force them to do the bidding of a rich guy.
Thinking about it more, Franken got kicked to the curb so yeah, the D might have more of a mechanism for coping with douche behaviour. I'm still thinking Bloomberg has a strong chance of ending up putting the D into that very crisis. His VP pick would be important. Wonder which Goldman Sachs exec gets the tap.
 
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That's kind of my point. No one is ever going to grab hold of the Dems and force them to do the bidding of a rich guy.
Also, did anyone watch the impeachment and “trial”. Our Democratic representatives are absolute heroes of the highest character. Adam Schiff is our Washington. Or maybe Nancy is.

Compare them with the sniveling, cowardly, lying pieces of shit that the Rs are.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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Honestly? If it comes down to Bloomberg vs Twitler? I'll prolly just go to the polls and vote down the rest of the ticket. But, eh, who knows how I'll feel in Nov. I just, a smart Twitler scares me more than the one we have now.
 
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At this point, I'd vote for a cartoon character so long as they rip out the theocratic god-bothering constitution-ignoring sleeper agents that the Trump administration has been shitting into all levels of government.
Bingo. Anyone who keeps up with what Trump is doing to our institutions will understand that this is no ordinary election, where we pick the candidate whose opinions mirror ours. This has NOTHING to do with picking our personal favorites.

It's about trying to figure out who has broadest base/polls best against Trump. And that is too early to tell.

And the Bernie or Bust people I know don’t get that. They think Trump is just another GWB.
 
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Isabeau

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So basically, one should vote for the one who will get the most people to actually vote. I think if Bloomberg is the one chosen, many will just stay home. Better to have someone that has the most chance to get the most votes, no? Yes there are "Bernie or Bust" types, but also the many who have lost their trust in the democratic process.

And of course, there are also the "No commie or we'll vote for trump or stay home". I think there are fewer of those.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Thinking about it more, Franken got kicked to the curb so yeah, the D might have more of a mechanism for coping with douche behaviour. I'm still thinking Bloomberg has a strong chance of ending up putting the D into that very crisis. His VP pick would be important. Wonder which Goldman Sachs exec gets the tap.
Thinking about it even further:

Meanwhile Bloomberg:

 

Pamela

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So basically, one should vote for the one who will get the most people to actually vote. I think if Bloomberg is the one chosen, many will just stay home. Better to have someone that has the most chance to get the most votes, no? Yes there are "Bernie or Bust" types, but also the many who have lost their trust in the democratic process.

And of course, there are also the "No commie or we'll vote for trump or stay home". I think there are fewer of those.
There are two theories of electability that resonate with me. One is, pick someone who people are excited to vote for — at this early date, that looks like Bernie. IOw, who can increase turnout. The other theory is to pick a compromise candidate with the broadest range of ideological support. That would be Buttigieg, maybe Klochubar or Bloomberg.

Still too early to judge.

But not too early to commit to Blue no Mattter Who, which those who understand how extreme our situation is will do.
 

Innula Zenovka

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For me, yes. Even if he's awful in a lot of other ways - if he's the candidate, I'm all in. He won't sell the country to Russia. My biggest issue right now is saving Democracy.

Mind you, I still think that even if he wins, Trump isn't going to just leave. We're in for a super big crisis.
If he becomes the president -- indeed, if he becomes the candidate -- then, to my mind, democracy in the US is pretty much bought and sold, if it wasn't already, that is, since it demonstrates pretty clearly that the presidency is up for grabs by the candidate with the deepest pockets and the best strategy for deploying via social media the access that buys him (possibly her) to the data available on the electorate.

Maybe we should not be too surprised, as we watch the logic of capitalist power structures work out, enabling billionaires to entertain themselves by buying elections, at least if they don't banjax the economy too much.

I'm probably too old to live to see it, thank heavens, but I suspect the US must before too long brace itself for a President Zuckerberg or a President Thiel.
 

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If he becomes the president -- indeed, if he becomes the candidate -- then, to my mind, democracy in the US is pretty much bought and sold, if it wasn't already, that is, since it demonstrates pretty clearly that the presidency is up for grabs by the candidate with the deepest pockets and the best strategy for deploying via social media the access that buys him (possibly her) to the data available on the electorate.

Maybe we should not be too surprised, as we watch the logic of capitalist power structures work out, enabling billionaires to entertain themselves by buying elections, at least if they don't banjax the economy too much.

I'm probably too old to live to see it, thank heavens, but I suspect the US must before too long brace itself for a President Zuckerberg or a President Thiel.
Since Citizens United, not only can everyone who wants be bought and sold, the sources of the money can be kept secret. And the SC confirmed it — money now effectively replaces democracy.

At this point candidates have a choice to bring a knife or a gun to the gunfight. Trump has a much larger war chest than everyone but the two billionaires. IOW does the means justify the end? IMO, it justifies this end, YMMV.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

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If Bloomberg should happen to win, then what comes next from the right? How do you top the "stop & frisk" President?

Bloomberg will dig the hole deeper and the next "Trump" won't be a bumbling idiot. Are we are seriously banking that the next Republicans are going to be ones who usher in a new Renaissance. Over half of the country can't even see a future anymore. That's because they don't have one. Revolution is already here. We just got lucky because the Republican version failed with Trump and will continue to fail. Republicans will fight as hard as Democrats have fought Trump if the next President does not fight for the lower classes and the young people. They will fight him or her from the left and tear them apart.

Be pragmatic, and throw the Revolution right back into the hands of a newly energized Republicans. God knows what that could look like, but with end times looking like a real thing, it might end up being a desperate campaign to put "Christ" back into the Constitution. Think about that.
 
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I'm probably too old to live to see it, thank heavens, but I suspect the US must before too long brace itself for a President Zuckerberg or a President Thiel.
The problem is that many of what we thought of as guardrail laws are just norms. They had the effect of law only as long as we thought of them as laws. Our job is to take the House, Senate, and presidency, enact norms into law, and get rid of Citizens United. And the Electoral College, and gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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get rid of Citizens United.
I just want to amend Citizen's United. You can put unlimited money into politics.

Everything past $100 gets taxed at 99% and used for social programs, education and healthcare.
 

Clara D.

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Billionaires buying their way into power is not democracy.
Why there's such a push to demonize socialism. A lot of people with money are more comfortable with capitalism being a system of government.
 
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Pamela

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So basically, one should vote for the one who will get the most people to actually vote. I think if Bloomberg is the one chosen, many will just stay home. Better to have someone that has the most chance to get the most votes, no? Yes there are "Bernie or Bust" types, but also the many who have lost their trust in the democratic process.

And of course, there are also the "No commie or we'll vote for trump or stay home". I think there are fewer of those.
Anyone who sits this one out for any reason is either very ignorant or very stupid. And apparently proud of it.
 

Pamela

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A lot of people with money are more comfortable with capitalism being a system of government.
Ya think?

PS Capitalism is not a ssystem of government.