WTF Bill Cosby's Conviction Overturned

Katheryne Helendale

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GoblinCampFollower

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What I'm more concerned about isn't the Cosby himself or the legal argument around it; what I'm concerned about are how all his apologists will feel vindicated with no regard for how obviously guilty he is. A lot of disturbing people in the "men's rights" groups were really pulling for him since they don't grasp consent.
 

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What I'm more concerned about isn't the Cosby himself or the legal argument around it; what I'm concerned about are how all his apologists will feel vindicated with no regard for how obviously guilty he is. A lot of disturbing people in the "men's rights" groups were really pulling for him since they don't grasp consent.
Based on some of the comments I've seen around the net, there are still a lot of apologists running around. Some of them seem to be equating a legal detail with innocence. But I'm not surprised by anything, any more.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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Based on some of the comments I've seen around the net, there are still a lot of apologists running around. Some of them seem to be equating a legal detail with innocence. But I'm not surprised by anything, any more.
Right, the reasons for his conviction weren't refuted, it is just a procedural detail... and a dubious one at that.
 

Myradyl Muse

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The devastating impact of this outrage for all his victims. Despicable. That is an immutable stain on this so-called 'supreme' court (my eye), in essence to annihilate years of victims' traumas on a vapid technicality by a good ole boy. Sorry, I hope you can't see me spitting and hissing through my teeth. I sincerely hope this further injustice can be appealed, somewhere?
 

Innula Zenovka

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Something I don't quite understand here -- how is it possible that Cosby's legal advisors neglected to get the then District Attorney's assurances in writing before allowing their client to incriminate himself on oath? I mean, it's a bit basic, I'd have thought.

And why was the issue of admissibility not settled before the trial, for heaven's sake?
 

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Something I don't quite understand here -- how is it possible that Cosby's legal advisors neglected to get the then District Attorney's assurances in writing before allowing their client to incriminate himself on oath? I mean, it's a bit basic, I'd have thought.

And why was the issue of admissibility not settled before the trial, for heaven's sake?
I just skimmed the pdf of the ruling. Apparently the documentation of the agreement not to prosecute was an ambiguously worded press release. It was brought up in pre-trial motions, and the judge agreed with the prosecutor that it allowed the case to be brought to trial if new information came to light. The Supreme Court of the state disagreed and ruled that the wording of the press release was sufficient to establish a common law grant of immunity so that Cosby could not invoke his right to refuse to testify in the civil case.

A clear written grant of immunity would have been more effective and probably would have prevented the trial from going from forward.
 

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This may clear up a few questions, may raise more, may upset a few but worth a watch imo

 
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Innula Zenovka

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I just skimmed the pdf of the ruling. Apparently the documentation of the agreement not to prosecute was an ambiguously worded press release. It was brought up in pre-trial motions, and the judge agreed with the prosecutor that it allowed the case to be brought to trial if new information came to light. The Supreme Court of the state disagreed and ruled that the wording of the press release was sufficient to establish a common law grant of immunity so that Cosby could not invoke his right to refuse to testify in the civil case.

A clear written grant of immunity would have been more effective and probably would have prevented the trial from going from forward.
This is what I simply don't understand -- why on earth neither Cosby nor his legal representatives insisted on formal confirmation that any admissions he might make would not be admissible in any subsequent criminal proceedings, precisely in order to avoid the possibility something like this might happen.

Similarly, the DA must have had what seemed to him compelling reasons to give these assurances, and I can't understand why he didn't document them, along with the precise scope of the immunity, in some way.

It's a complete disaster -- Cosby's spent three years in prison when he shouldn't have, and he's had his conviction overturned in a way that will rightly outrage many and can only tend to diminish confidence in Pennsylvania's criminal justice system.

It's the worst of all possible outcomes, and I can't understand how the situation was allowed to come about in the first place, when it could so easily have been avoided by people following what I'd have thought were basic procedures and common sense.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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What I'm more concerned about isn't the Cosby himself or the legal argument around it; what I'm concerned about are how all his apologists will feel vindicated with no regard for how obviously guilty he is. A lot of disturbing people in the "men's rights" groups were really pulling for him since they don't grasp consent.
This, right there.

It's pretty much sent a clear message to any misogynist or incel who believes women are theirs for the conquest, that such behavior is okay and unpunishable. This is beyond fucking disturbing!
 

Innula Zenovka

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I just skimmed the pdf of the ruling. Apparently the documentation of the agreement not to prosecute was an ambiguously worded press release. It was brought up in pre-trial motions, and the judge agreed with the prosecutor that it allowed the case to be brought to trial if new information came to light. The Supreme Court of the state disagreed and ruled that the wording of the press release was sufficient to establish a common law grant of immunity so that Cosby could not invoke his right to refuse to testify in the civil case.

A clear written grant of immunity would have been more effective and probably would have prevented the trial from going from forward.
I've now skimmed the pdf, at least for the background, and it's now rather clearer what happened.

All I can say is that the DA seems to have taken a bad situation and made it considerably worse. To my mind, he confused his role as prosecutor with that of the complainant's attorney, seeing himself as trying to secure an advantage for her in her civil action as Cosby rather than as upholding the criminal law of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and thus created this debacle.

However, at least on the facts as described in the Opinion, the only reason Cosby chose to give evidence under oath in the civil case rather than stand on his Fifth Amendment rights was that he'd been advised the DA's declining to prosecute has deprived him of that protection, which would almost certainly make the subsequent prosecution an abuse of process under British law, though I see the trial judge shared my consternation at how the DA and Cosby's attorneys had handled the previous case.

I blame the DA, quite simply.
 

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Based on some of the comments I've seen around the net, there are still a lot of apologists running around. Some of them seem to be equating a legal detail with innocence. But I'm not surprised by anything, any more.
And Second Life is no exception; in fact, even some high-profile, much-loved SLebrities have opted to befriend notorious rape apologists.
 
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bubblesort

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It's a complete disaster -- Cosby's spent three years in prison when he shouldn't have, and he's had his conviction overturned in a way that will rightly outrage many and can only tend to diminish confidence in Pennsylvania's criminal justice system.
Yeah, it's a disaster, but I am not totally shocked it happened in Philadelphia. Philadelphia has a certain reputation for this kind of idiocy. The old keystone cops show was inspired by real life fuckups. The term "Philadelphia lawyer" is a euphamism for an overpriced, sleazy lawyer. They literally firebombed civilians in 1985, and missed the target when they did. The law isn't even written the same for Philadelphia than the rest of the state. They write special laws for Philadelphia by referring to things that only apply in, "cities of the first class," and philadelphia is the only city of the first class in pennsylvania. I'm not saying that the rest of Pennsylvania is perfect, but Philly is it's own special kind of bad.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Yeah, it's a disaster, but I am not totally shocked it happened in Philadelphia. Philadelphia has a certain reputation for this kind of idiocy. The old keystone cops show was inspired by real life fuckups. The term "Philadelphia lawyer" is a euphamism for an overpriced, sleazy lawyer. They literally firebombed civilians in 1985, and missed the target when they did. The law isn't even written the same for Philadelphia than the rest of the state. They write special laws for Philadelphia by referring to things that only apply in, "cities of the first class," and philadelphia is the only city of the first class in pennsylvania. I'm not saying that the rest of Pennsylvania is perfect, but Philly is it's own special kind of bad.
I keep on thinking about this and, in a similar case here, the police would investigate, and pass the file to the Crown Prosecution Service, and they'd then decide what to do with it.

Normally in an historical rape case with a credible complainant who was willing to give evidence, they'd prosecute as a matter of policy, even if they thought the chances of a conviction were slim, but even if they decided not to prosecute, that would be the limit of their involvement. They'd issue a statement to the effect they were insufficiently confident their case stood a realistic chance of meeeting the criminal standard to justify bringing charges at this time, but would review the matter if new material came to light.

If they decide not to proceed, then once it's clear there's no immediate prospect of a criminal prosecution, the complainant can bring civil proceedings against the defendant if she wishes.

These require a lower standard of proof.

That's a matter for her, not the prosecuting authorities, just as it's up to the defendant and his lawyers how they respond, and if he declines to give evidence in his own defence, for whatever reason, that's his decision, and the court will have to do the best they can with the evidence they do have.

I just don't see how the civil trial and its outcome were any of the business of the DA, at least not in his capacity as an agent of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
 
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