WTF Armed Neo-Nazis Crash Detroit Pride with Police Escort

Kalel

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Yes, I see the problems here when it comes to defining just what kind of speech/assembly counts as impermissible. I'm neither a legal scholar nor a lawyer. But I can sure as heck point at a gathering of Nazis and say "HELL NO!" Anyone who says they deserve the same treatment as ordinary citizens may need to reexamine European history from about 80 years ago. :beatup:

I'll say it again: tolerant societies must not tolerate intolerance. If they do, they invite their own eventual doom.
you reminded me of this poem

 
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Eunoli

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Non-violence has its place.

Dealing with Nazis and similar is not it - period.

Nonviolence deals with them more harshly. Placing police around them and deriding and degrading them is far more damaging to their movement than an attack against it. Laughing at them in public takes courage - and it harms their ability to recruit when people see it. I'm not saying that anyone should let themselves be abused or attacked. What I am saying is that there are for more effective means of fighting /these/ nazis than giving them the violent snippets of video they will use to raise the cries of "them against us". Its far easier to recruit help against the people you are visibly battling against than to recruit help against the people making fun of you.
 

Innula Zenovka

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While I am not any sort of Gandhian pacifist, I believe in violence as a last resort, something to be used within the limits permitted by law (self-defence, defence of another, and so on).

While I am not familiar with the situation in the US, certainly we've recently seen multiple attempts by English neo-Nazi groups to organise parades in Liverpool (and I think Manchester too), only to be met with massive, determined, but peaceable demonstrations by ordinary people of all sorts, including the mayor and the local MP and other dignitaries, in such numbers they never managed to get out of the train station.

That's what I'm used to here, and is pretty similar to the way the left and liberals over here have always met, and overcome, British neo-nazis for the last 40 or 50 years since first I started becoming politically aware as a teenager (God, how old that makes me feel!).

ETA-- I know what is bugging me so much about this. For most of my adult life we in the UK had a horrible long-running example of political violence on the streets uncomfortably close across the St George's Channel, until the Good Friday Agreement.

I've also had first-hand experience of being caught up in a political protest that turned into a riot, in the Poll Tax riot of 1990, a not-uneventful experience which I cannot recommend and have no wish ever to repeat.

That's what political violence looks like to me.
 
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Kara Spengler

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Let me be clear  —  and this will probably sound contradictory, given my previous posts  —  I don't want violence. I'm not spoiling for a fight. But I also don't think acts of violence are always wrong. I want to say violence is a last resort, and most of the time it is. Nazis, though. :voodoo: In the end I think this is the only way to really deal with fascists. Anything else is just giving them ground, a little bit at a time.

I also see law enforcement escorting Nazis as tacit approval of them. I don't believe that fascists get to play the "free speech/assembly" card. They're fascists, for crying out loud. They're a cancer on any society. The standard rules do not apply. Allow them to flourish at your own peril.

Yes, I see the problems here when it comes to defining just what kind of speech/assembly counts as impermissible. I'm neither a legal scholar nor a lawyer. But I can sure as heck point at a gathering of Nazis and say "HELL NO!" Anyone who says they deserve the same treatment as ordinary citizens may need to reexamine European history from about 80 years ago. :beatup:

I'll say it again: tolerant societies must not tolerate intolerance. If they do, they invite their own eventual doom.
I agree you can yell anything you want .... but if what you are screaming is violent intolerance society does not have to protect your rights. That is not squelching anyone's speech. It is saying "we will protect you up to here but no further".
 
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