WTF Armed Neo-Nazis Crash Detroit Pride with Police Escort

Eunoli

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Just a wild guess - it may have been to prevent them from being able to instigate violence while being surrounded by police. One hopes, anyway.
 
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Eunoli

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If it is really only that many people, I am somewhat relived to see it. Its a lot less of the "very fine people" than showed up in Charlottesville.

And as disgusting and evil as I find these people's beliefs to be, I am glad to live in a country with freedom of speech to express it.
 
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Han Held

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If it is really only that many people, I am somewhat relived to see it. Its a lot less of the "very fine people" than showed up in Charlottesville.

And as disgusting and evil as I find these people's beliefs to be, I am glad to live in a country with freedom of speech to express it.
I was talking to bestie and she was like "hey, you realize it's only seven people right?" -which did go past me. I agree with your point about living in a country free enough to voice dissent in -that's a definate upside.

Problem is, these people are growing. god knows how many will be out next year.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

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Well the police were always around them....but maybe the Nazis weren't the ones the police were really hanging around to protect.
 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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It should be a misdemeanor resulting in arrests and fines if someone continues using a bullhorn in a public space without a permit after being asked to cease and desist.

Honestly I don't care who's using one. I hate those things that much.
 
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Kara Spengler

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There was an incident at the pride parade here in DC Saturday. It is still being investigated but it stopped the parade early.

Gee, notice this stuff is becoming more frequent now that donnie and penis are in charge? :(
 
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Kara Spengler

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It looks like the DC one is a bit more complex than it originally looked but the root problem is people are getting messages that doing things like taking a weapon to a crowded place with families is at all a good idea.
 
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Han Held

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No, I think you were right the first time ...the country has gone so far off the rails that loonies are crawling out of the woodwork, armed to the teeth and aided and assisted by our adversaries (it's no accident a lot of the coordination was done on vk).
 
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Innula Zenovka

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If the law permits people to participate in demonstrations and counter-demonstrations while openly carrying firearms, some people might think it's a bloody stupid law and a disaster waiting to happen, but that's the fault of the legislators, as well as that of whoever drew up the detailed regulations about conditions under which permits may be denied or allowed for demonstrations and counter-demonstrations and also of whoever granted the permits for the counter-demonstration.

However, if the Nazi demonstration/counter demonstration was, in fact, lawful, then I think I would rather welcome the presence of large numbers of heavily armed cops on the scene.

What's the alternative -- leave the fascists and anti-fascists to settle their differences between them and hope both sides can shoot straight?
 
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Han Held

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However, if the Nazi demonstration/counter demonstration was, in fact, lawful, then I think I would rather welcome the presence of large numbers of heavily armed cops on the scene.
Which is all fine and well...until you realize that oftentimes the cops are on the side of the fascists.






...given the overt blessing of the government RE:fascism I don't necessarily believe that police precence is a positive -at all.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Which is all fine and well...until you realize that oftentimes the cops are on the side of the fascists.






...given the overt blessing of the government RE:fascism I don't necessarily believe that police precence is a positive -at all.
Yes, but I am still not clear what solution to the problem you would recommend.

Obviously the police should not allow themselves to be infiltrated by fascists, but that's a separate problem.

Are you saying that, for whatever reason, it's regrettable under the circumstances that the police turned up at all, since that prevented the antifascists from opening fire on the Nazis and trying to deal with their presence that way?

My take on it is quite simple -- as far as possible, the state should have the monopoly, with some carefully designed exceptions, to the lawful use of force. People also have the right to peaceful protest and counter-protest, subject to legal restraints, and everyone has, or should have, the right to go peacefully about their lawful business with as little disruption as possible.

So my main problems with all this are first, that the Nazis were allowed to stage their counter-demonstration at all, at least anywhere near the protesters; second that they're allowed guns at all, and third that they're allowed to wear them in public when attending a counter-demonstration, presumably to intimidate their opponents and the general public.

Those are all problems for the legislature, and possibly, if the police have any discretion in dictating how protests and counter-protests are routed, for whoever oversees the local police. The Nazi demonstrators shouldn't be allowed guns in the first place but, since they are, their guns, at least, should be kept well away from the protesters and the public at large.

That's the problem.

But since the problem was allowed to arise in the first place, by allowing armed Nazis to demonstrate at all, I'm struggling to think of any circumstances in which it would have been right for the police simply to decide to let them and the antifascists get on with things and hope not too many people were killed and injured and it didn't take too long to clear up the mess afterwards.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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Well, the NRA owns the legislators who write the laws regarding whether or not someone can walk around with a gun wherever. The police determine who may be a threat in such cases. Protesters in Ferguson, very few of which were brandishing guns openly, had the police bringing out all of their paramilitary gear.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Well, the NRA owns the legislators who write the laws regarding whether or not someone can walk around with a gun wherever. The police determine who may be a threat in such cases. Protesters in Ferguson, very few of which were brandishing guns openly, had the police bringing out all of their paramilitary gear.
Which, since the march passed off apparently without incident, would clearly have been just as much an over-reaction by the police as it was at Ferguson. Surely those policing this event should be applauded for not over-reacting as much as did their colleagues in Ferguson rather than be condemned for not so doing?

I'm horrified that anyone, let alone Nazis, are allowed to take guns to demonstrations, and I'm unhappy that Nazis are allowed to demonstrate at all, though I do understand the legal and constitutional issues there are not completely clear-cut.

But given that things like this are allowed to happen in Detroit, for reasons that must seem good to someone, surely it's better that the police attend than that they don't?

Furthermore, since we know the Nazis are bringing their guns along, then surely it's only wise for the cops to be appropriately armed for the operation, too?

I'd rather the police had been there to arrest them than to protect people from them (or to protect them) but surely the police couldn't not have been there?