WTF Apparently Phoenix PD believes that shoplifting a 1$ barbie and a pair of underwear deserve torture and potentially the death penalty

Rose Karuna

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Some of you may have seen this video of the police once again over reacting in a dangerous and violent way to a situation that could have been handled in a much better way.

See Video of the incident: Phoenix couple who say police drew guns on them want officers fired

Today Phoenix PD released this trying to justify the actions of the officers: Girl, 4, walks out of Family Dollar with doll before dad's arrest

First off, instead of confronting them at the store (like they should have) the police followed the couple home and then confronted them when they went to get out of the car. They pointed loaded guns at them while screaming obscenities and kicking the father in the upper leg (balls) and threatening a woman who is six months pregnant. The police continued to scream at the mother, telling her to put her arms up. She argued back that she couldn't because she had a baby in her arms. The officers then told her to put the one-year-old on the ground. She refused and ended up handing the baby to a stranger who had approached the scene to help her.

She had either put her baby on the hot tarmac ground or hand her over to a stranger? WTF?

For shoplifting, years ago (60's and 70's), someone in the family would have been tapped on the shoulder by store security if they were suspected of shoplifting. The store security would have called the police if they wanted to press charges and the police would have taken the perpetrator into custody. Children were generally not arrested but returned to their parents and the item the child lifted was returned to the store. Easy, simple and no one was endangered. WTF has happened to law enforcement in the last two decades???

Are they so much judge and jury that they think shoplifting deserves torture and the death penalty?
 

Kara Spengler

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I got into a twitter argument with someone over this (yes, I will never learn). They asked me if I knew the whole story. My response was to ask them to spin ANY story that would justify that vid.
 

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I got into a twitter argument with someone over this (yes, I will never learn). They asked me if I knew the whole story. My response was to ask them to spin ANY story that would justify that vid.
This is how my dad is with any news of police excessive force. To him, the fact that the media misreported the Rodney King incident means we can never believe ANY video. When you are a rich white person in suburbia, it's hard to understand why anyone would take issue with the way police behave in some places.
 
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Kara Spengler

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This is how my dad is with any news of police excessive force. To him, the fact that the media misreported the Rodney King incident means we can never believe ANY video. When you are a rich white person in suburbia, it's hard to understand why anyone would take issue with the way police behave in some places.
Yes, I liked what The Daily Show pointed out yesterday. That the cops were doing things like running around threatening to 'bust a cap' into people. Meanwhile bystanders were following the textbook of what police *should* be doing (at least one even said 'deescalate' while talking calmly).

Cops ... every time I think there are some good ones out there another does something so bad I just toss the whole barrel. Some people will do the 'they are only human' defense. Umm, no. In the US we give them guns and almost put them above the law .... which puts them at a MUCH higher standard.
 

Innula Zenovka

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The police officers should, to my mind, have as the first priority the safety of the public, which obviously includes the safety of infants in the care of the suspects, as well as members of public who happen to be in the vicinity.

Furthermore, any use, or threat, of force has to be proportionate. OK, they don't have to worry anywhere near so much about guns here as they do in the USA but even when they take an armed response unit along on a drugs raid they don't go in mob-handed like that.

As Kara said, the whole idea is to de-escalate the situation -- force, lethal or otherwise, is the tool of last resort and must, as a matter of law, be used proportionately.
 

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Furthermore, any use, or threat, of force has to be proportionate. OK, they don't have to worry anywhere near so much about guns here as they do in the USA but even when they take an armed response unit along on a drugs raid they don't go in mob-handed like that.

As Kara said, the whole idea is to de-escalate the situation -- force, lethal or otherwise, is the tool of last resort and must, as a matter of law, be used proportionately.
You are talking here about America - and it's a systemic problem there. The American police killed alone in the 24 first days of 2015 more people - 59 - than the police in England&Wales in the last 24 years with 55.


It's a problem which is deeply rooted in the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude many people are living there and bad training of police officers.
 

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As Kara said, the whole idea is to de-escalate the situation -- force, lethal or otherwise, is the tool of last resort and must, as a matter of law, be used proportionately.
Are you suggesting that having the guns out wasn't an appropriate gut reaction to a toddler stealing a doll?!

Cops ... every time I think there are some good ones out there another does something so bad I just toss the whole barrel. Some people will do the 'they are only human' defense. Umm, no. In the US we give them guns and almost put them above the law .... which puts them at a MUCH higher standard.
I know plenty of cops know how to be very intimidating without reaching for their guns. I'm very confident average cops would have handled this situation better than these clowns. The big problem is that when a few bad apples are around, the "good" cops tend to rally around their own when they really shouldn't have.

I even remember one case where the other cops on the scene testified against an idiot who shot a random motorcyclist in the back, but the shooter still had his conviction overturned because the other officers were "bias" against him. They were "bias" because they knew he was a moron who'd do something like that.
 
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Rose Karuna

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I want to add one other thing that reflects on the store they were reported by. I've lived in poor neighborhoods and have had moving sales and stuff. A few times people have stolen stuff and I knew about it and just turned a blind eye. I'm not saying that people should ever steal, I'm just saying that often, a child picking a toy up (particularly a 4 year old child) and a man stealing a pair of underwear, probably do not qualify as "crooks of the year" and if you have ever been poor in your life, maybe you understand that they might need a little help? I don't think that someone steals a pair of men's underwear for the "excitement" of shop lifting. :rolleyes:

Instead their car was impounded, he missed work and ended up with doctor bills and their life was in general made much more miserable.

I hope they win their lawsuit and I hope their daughters get to go to a good college because of it. They actually seemed like a pretty nice family.
 

Brenda Archer

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Is it known which party this PD favours? GOP maybe?
This being Phoenix they’re almost certainly Republicans. This area runs more hard Right than average and it’s the evangelical hard Right that makes conservative Catholics and Mormons in the area look moderate in comparison.
 

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I’m not in a position to cut and paste yet but locals have mentioned a few things:

The store didn’t report it, it was a bystander. The couple were at the place where their babysitter is when the police got to them.

You simply cannot put a baby on the pavement in Phoenix in summer.

The father’s leg got injured enough to stop him from working.

Local people are furious as this follows the well established racist policing pattern of the local police.
 

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As Kara said, the whole idea is to de-escalate the situation -- force, lethal or otherwise, is the tool of last resort and must, as a matter of law, be used proportionately.
When I was part of the ship's security force in my last duty station (an aircraft carrier is literally a floating city, complete with its own armed police force), we were taught the "ladder of force", and deescalation techniques were part of our routine training. I can't believe the same isn't done - and reinforced - as part of police culture in our civilian police forces. It makes me wonder what their training programs look like.
 

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The store didn’t report it, it was a bystander. The couple were at the place where their babysitter is when the police got to them.
The police clearly showed up with a highly inappropriate amount of force. But it makes me wonder how much the "bystander" embellished the story when reporting it, and if the police were led to expect armed conflict upon arrival.
 

Kara Spengler

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You are talking here about America - and it's a systemic problem there. The American police killed alone in the 24 first days of 2015 more people - 59 - than the police in England&Wales in the last 24 years with 55.


It's a problem which is deeply rooted in the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude many people are living there and bad training of police officers.
Yet another reason why 'american' is not my first reaction when people ask my nationality.
 

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Are you suggesting that having the guns out wasn't an appropriate gut reaction to a toddler stealing a doll?!



I know plenty of cops know how to be very intimidating without reaching for their guns. I'm very confident average cops would have handled this situation better than these clowns. The big problem is that when a few bad apples are around, the "good" cops tend to rally around their own when they really shouldn't have.

I even remember one case where the other cops on the scene testified against an idiot who shot a random motorcyclist in the back, but the shooter still had his conviction overturned because the other officers were "bias" against him. They were "bias" because they knew he was a moron who'd do something like that.
Exactly, individually there are good ones and bad ones. As long as their culture insists on this mentality of covering for the bad ones though there are pretty much no good cops.
 

Rose Karuna

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The police clearly showed up with a highly inappropriate amount of force. But it makes me wonder how much the "bystander" embellished the story when reporting it, and if the police were led to expect armed conflict upon arrival.
No doubt, "shopping while black". Even worse than driving while black or doing anything else while black and being reported to the police by racist assholes. :mad:
 

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The police clearly showed up with a highly inappropriate amount of force. But it makes me wonder how much the "bystander" embellished the story when reporting it, and if the police were led to expect armed conflict upon arrival.
Phoenix PD are notoriously trigger-happy.

Dude could have been peeling potatoes and have it lead to a 4--hour "standoff" with SWAT.
 

Innula Zenovka

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You are talking here about America - and it's a systemic problem there. The American police killed alone in the 24 first days of 2015 more people - 59 - than the police in England&Wales in the last 24 years with 55.


It's a problem which is deeply rooted in the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude many people are living there and bad training of police officers.
The real problem I have with understanding what's going on there is that the police officers must have a life outside their official duties, and this will sometimes include going shopping with their families.

That alone, I would have thought, should be enough to give any sane person reason to hesitate before brandishing a gun in a busy public area at a couple who are in charge of young children.

I used to shoot game birds and clay pigeons years ago, with a police officer who trained the Thames Valley Police firearms units.

I shudder to think of his reaction had anyone he'd trained pulled a stunt like that, I really do.
 
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