Anyone else getting seriously worried Trump will win in 2020?

Kara Spengler

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If he's not he's at the least tied for last place. Andrew Jackson was arguably more corrupt but as far as I know he never asked a foreign power to intervene in elections.
Ah yes, the president donnie admires and everyone else wants to forget.
 

Rose Karuna

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Ah yes, the president donnie admires and everyone else wants to forget.
Ah yes, Andrew Jackson, the slavery owner and ethnic cleanser Trail of Tears | The Museum of the Cherokee Indian

and Trail of Tears - Wikipedia

To people like Jackson and Trump the law doesn't matter. When I read about building "the wall" and putting moats and alligators in the water surrounding the wall, I think of what Jackson did and I'm pretty sure, that another tyrant could do the same thing if the American people don't stop him. Then it was Native Americans, now, it's Mexican and South American people. Next? Who knows?

The Cherokee went to the Supreme Court again in 1831. This time they based their appeal on an 1830 Georgia law which prohibited whites from living on Indian territory after March 31, 1831, without a license from the state. The state legislature had written this law to justify removing white missionaries who were helping the Indians resist removal. The court this time decided in favor of the Cherokee. It stated that the Cherokee had the right to self-government, and declared Georgia's extension of state law over them to be unconstitutional. The state of Georgia refused to abide by the Court decision, however, and President Jackson refused to enforce the law.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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He was a terrible person as well as being both corrupt and incompetent at governing. A perfect Trump Trifecta of awfulness.

Also, he was famous for winning a battle after the war was over. But that's because they didn't have cellphones, so nobody could text him "peace treaty signed escort the ruffians offshore". Probably the biggest difference between Andrew and Donald.
 
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Trump is a symptom. Getting rid of him is a good thing because he's a volatile lunatic, but it will not solve our deeply rooted governance problems. The next GOP president could be competent, after all, and then we're well and truly screwed.
Which is the problem with impeachment. The republicans might get smart and say fuck this unstable guy trump. Let's go with Pence.
 

Kalel

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Dealing with the US is like dealing with China - you know you shouldn't but there's no alternative either.
you may not want to admit there are alternatives but When people are desperate they will turn to anything.... does not matter how small, bad or how far. alittle reputation good or bad can go a long way... better then none at all. they could go to Russia and Beg if they sy no just keep going down the line... India? Australia? Iraq? it doesn't need to be perfect... it may be slow... you just keep knocking on doors til someone says yes... Shame doesn't matter as long as you get what you want.

 

Cristalle

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Which is the problem with impeachment. The republicans might get smart and say fuck this unstable guy trump. Let's go with Pence.
Yes, but Pence is not as charismatic. He has zero magnetism and would be more susceptible to common scandals. Trump is Jim Jones writ large.
 

Pamela

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Which is the problem with impeachment. The republicans might get smart and say fuck this unstable guy trump. Let's go with Pence.
They will never do that, for multiple reasons, one of which is the base is solid. The other reasons have to do with Russian carrots and very serious sticks, like “we will kill your family”.
 

Beebo Brink

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Plus Midwestern farming communities that are seeing increased bankruptcies as they get caught between higher tariffs on steel and equipment driving up costs and retaliation for trade policies shrinking their market.
This is a fascinating (morbidly speaking) demographic right now. Farmers are deeply emotionally & financially invested in believing Trump is 1) a competent negotiator and 2) doing what is best for the country. As long as they can couch their own misfortunes as a sacrifice for the Greater Good, their misfortunes will feel justified and they will continue to support Trump despite the personal cost.

So it's not really a matter of how much suffering can they endure, but rather how long can they continue to deny reality and believe in the illusions that give their sacrifices meaning and purpose. The longer this goes on, the greater the stress of their cognitive dissonance. The deeper in trouble they fall, the greater need to believe Trump is nigh unto God and they are his warriors.

We had a similar dilemma with the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. At what point do you cave to the knowledge that all that killing was for nothing? If you lost a son, a daughter, a brother or sister, in any of those wars, the loss is at least somewhat mitigated by knowing they were "defending the U.S.A." If you believe that we were protecting the oil industry and the investments of the Carlyle Group, there is no counterbalance for despair and grief.

If the dam starts to crack, if farmers finally realize that they've been scammed of their life's work by a bloviating self-serving idiot, there will be no saving Trump in 2020. Reality is a far more potent opponent than the Democrats. I just wish I knew if it was throwing its hat in the ring.
 

Zaida Gearbox

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I'm seriously scared that one of the people currently running for President is going to win, and I don't want any of them (that includes Dump Truck) - damnit!
 

Zaida Gearbox

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I voted 3rd party last time. I've been screamed out and one person even suggested the 3rd party "conscience voters" should be killed because somehow it's all our fault Dump got elected making the faulty assumption that if there hadn't been a 3rd party candidate to vote for that we'd have all voted for Hillary. Speaking only for myself - if there hadn't been a 3rd party candidate to vote for and writing in wasn't an option - I would have just stayed home.
 
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Brenda Archer

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I voted 3rd party last time. I've been screamed out and one person even suggested the 3rd party "conscience voters" should be killed because somehow it's all our fault Dump got elected making the faulty assumption that if there hadn't been a 3rd party candidate to vote for that we'd have all voted for Hillary. Speaking only for myself - if there hadn't been a 3rd party candidate to vote for and writing in wasn't an option - I would have just stayed home.
Are they really all that bad? Even clearly competent people like Warren, Castro or Bennet?

If you can’t have ideology, can you at least vote for competence? The Republicans have shown they’re not interested in governing, but it is literally their only job (of the legal ones).
 
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The problem with even the best candidates is they may save us for a short term but they aren't going to fix things for a couple of decades from now. That would require radical change. So we'll all be going to hell in a handbasket. I'll likely be dead by then anyway and don't have children. I'll vote for any democrat against the orange one because a few more years would be nice.

A good candidate would start by campaigning on putting big pharma, insurance and oil out of business and reducing the military by 90%. Like that will happen.
 

Brenda Archer

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The problem with even the best candidates is they may save us for a short term but they aren't going to fix things for a couple of decades from now. That would require radical change. So we'll all be going to hell in a handbasket. I'll likely be dead by then anyway and don't have children. I'll vote for any democrat against the orange one because a few more years would be nice.

A good candidate would start by campaigning on putting big pharma, insurance and oil out of business and reducing the military by 90%. Like that will happen.
Since these are all things we won’t be able to afford, we stand a chance of eventually getting rid of them. But there’s still the option of doing it in a good way, or in a bad way.

On a brute force kind of level everything can be seen as a struggle between liberal democracy versus mobbed up dictatorships and then the decisions are not that hard.

While liberal democracies are certainly also colonialist settler states (and therefore perpetually vulnerable to sliding into fascism), we have not yet invented anything else that can defend itself.
 
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Since these are all things we won’t be able to afford, we stand a chance of eventually getting rid of them. But there’s still the option of doing it in a good way, or in a bad way.
I don't know how to even respond to that Brenda. It seems to me we are a nation controlled by the very rich. Unless something is done about that then we are doomed.
 

Anya Ristow

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Trump is the Boaty McBoatface candidate. Essentially, election vandalism.

I'm actually hopeful. I think even Buttigieg or Harris could pull off a "no, really, I'm not the establishment" campaign and maybe beat Trump.

Biden, though? People will vote for Boaty McBoatface, because they'll think even that would be more productive than voting for Biden.