Ammon Bundy Quits Militia Movement In Solidarity With Migrant Caravan

Brian

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I don't know I've been seeing this among my libertarian minded FB friends:

Libertarians ignore that their own very existence came from the government investing money to enable them ability to make money and earn a living in the first place, in which their return to the community is fighting to prevent the government from enabling anyone else to do the same thing.
 

danielravennest

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Yeah but it's wrong, I'm a lefty an I'm generally cool with taxes....maybe I'm weird though.
My feeling is taxes are OK if you get reasonable value in return. Thus, metro Atlanta voted for a sales tax increase referendum in order to fund transportation improvements. Since then, I've been seeing all kinds of repaving, new street lights, etc. locally, and the denser part of the city is getting more light rail and express busses (which will take a while to build). Border walls, on the other hand, are a pure waste of money.

Unfortunately, at the federal level we don't get to vote on individual issues.
 

Zaida Gearbox

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My feeling is taxes are OK if you get reasonable value in return. Thus, metro Atlanta voted for a sales tax increase referendum in order to fund transportation improvements. Since then, I've been seeing all kinds of repaving, new street lights, etc. locally, and the denser part of the city is getting more light rail and express busses (which will take a while to build). Border walls, on the other hand, are a pure waste of money.

Unfortunately, at the federal level we don't get to vote on individual issues.
I agree with you, but I'm not a libertarian.
 
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Myficals

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Ammon Bundy's position isn't really that unexpected when you think about it. The Bundy's are Mormons and his beliefs regarding immigrants and refugees is solidly in line with LDS teachings.

The fact he's surface right* on this one issue, doesn't mean the rest of his belief set isn't fucked up.

* - Even if his attitude towards refugees looks moral on the surface, it's important to remember that the LDS welcoming attitude to refugees comes from a strongly paternalistic "helping people who can't help themselves" stance. So even here, it's not all sunshine and roses.
 

Veritable Quandry

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Also worth noting that ranchers and other rural agriculture rely on a steady stream of cheap labor. It's hard to be Ruggedly Independent™ when you have to pay fair market rates for things like land, water, feed, labor, ammunition, etc.
 

Kara Spengler

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Yeah but it's wrong, I'm a lefty an I'm generally cool with taxes....maybe I'm weird though.
Yeah, I see taxes as your dues for being part of a society. While you can object (like voting for someone else) they are not optional.
 

Kara Spengler

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Also worth noting that ranchers and other rural agriculture rely on a steady stream of cheap labor. It's hard to be Ruggedly Independent™ when you have to pay fair market rates for things like land, water, feed, labor, ammunition, etc.
Right, the whole reason people pay more than what it would cost them to do something themself (assume no specialized tool/knowledge/etc) is precisely because they do not want to do it themselves or it is more worth to pay someone else to. How often do you see a CEO cleaning their bathrooms to save a buck?
 

Brenda Archer

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Ammon Bundy's position isn't really that unexpected when you think about it. The Bundy's are Mormons and his beliefs regarding immigrants and refugees is solidly in line with LDS teachings.

The fact he's surface right* on this one issue, doesn't mean the rest of his belief set isn't fucked up.

* - Even if his attitude towards refugees looks moral on the surface, it's important to remember that the LDS welcoming attitude to refugees comes from a strongly paternalistic "helping people who can't help themselves" stance. So even here, it's not all sunshine and roses.
Agreed, it’s definitely a mixed bag. Even the mainstream LDS church has taken a long time to get clear of some very obvious forms of racism, and given what the Bundys have said about Puritans and Native Americans I’m not sure he qualifies as woke even now.

But, if the increasingly Hispanic membership of the LDS Church, along with the lefty bent of their oldest doctrines, turns out to be a brake on the ever more extreme fascism coming from evangelical Republicans, that’s a benefit.

Needs work, better than nothing, I suppose.
 
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Brenda Archer

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It’s too bad Romney is turning out to sound so spineless. If he’s trying to be a middle of the road loyal dissenter the way Flake and McCain tried to be, he’s failing and needs a scriptwriter.

Some years ago, during the Nineties, I watched the very prominent Utah Republican I was working for, make sure he touched base with the Eagle Forum for marching orders. I am sure the Utah establishment is still basically taking orders from the Republican machine and not showing much initiative against it. I also think this has helped to cost the Church some of its educated members and some of its support over the years.

If the national defense minded faction of the party finally gets into an overt struggle with the Trumplicans, it would represent an opportunity for LDS politicians to defect from hard Right control. I don’t expect them to have the foresight to grab the chance, though. I’d lay stronger odds instead on the whole Intermountain West going purple. Sycophancy is a very hard habit to break.