Abortion Debates on the rise in Canada

[Pancake]

So much to my dismay, the abortion “debate” has been on the rise in Canada for the past year. Worse, the prolifers seem to be gaining support and traction using similar arguments that have led to reduced access in many states.

For those not familiar with abortion law in Canada, the short version is there really aren’t any. It’s legal, and covered in most (maybe all) provinces by provincial healthcare.

Our previous Conservative Prime Ministers and Party Leaders may have held pro life sentiments personally, but they knew it was political suicide to bring it up. In fact, the federal Conservative party even had it in their charter to never bring abortion legislation. This year though, under their new leader, the previously controlled religious right pushed back and demanded the party vote on it again. Luckily the party managed, narrowly, to vote to maintain that rule in their charter but the very fact it came up is a troubling sign.

Not a week goes by that I don’t see articles in the paper, the news, or social media that another group or politician has raised the issue again. They try to frame it reasonably of course, maybe counseling should be mandatory. Or they fear monger about late term abortions, at minimum there should be federal legislation on that right? Which of course leads them to quote selective scientific papers about 12 weeks instead of the more common limit of 20 currently enforced by the medical profession bodies that govern those who provide these services. I’m even seeing talk, borrowed from certain state legislation, about regulations to require in hospital instead of clinics and mandatory waiting periods.

I don’t even recognize my country some days. Sure there was always a small but vocal religious base, but for all intents and purposes, this topic was closed. Now? Schools are bussing high school kids to a pro life rally at the provincial legislature and I see people with graphic abortion placards hanging out on University campuses.

Some of the proposed regulations are not entirely unreasonable, which is how they are persuading otherwise liberal minded people to their cause, but I don’t trust where this would end if it starts. I’ve read too much about how adding dozens of micro regulations, while still technically leaving abortions legal, effectively reduce access so severely in some areas it might as well be illegal.

The most worrisome for me are the arguments that it shouldn’t be covered by health care, that tax payers shouldn’t be required to fund something against their morals. I shudder to think where that line of thinking would take us. First medical and psychological supports for transsexuals I’m sure. But where would it end? No publically funded blood transfusions because Jehovas Witnesses pay taxes?

It was frightening enough to see the rise of the religious right in other parts of the world, but I didn’t think it would happen here. Well I suppose it hasn’t happened yet, they don’t have power and aren’t going to pass any legislation this year. But next? Or three years from now?

What else are we going to regress on as a society? How and why is this happening?

 

[Pancake]

A good article about the history of abortion rights in Canada if anyone was interested.

Canadian OB-GYN Schools The Internet About Abortion In Canada

Since the existing criminal law against abortion was struck down in 1988, abortion in Canada is treated like any other medical procedure — which is to say it's governed by medical standards and not by political will.

I’m still dumbfounded that young women on university campuses are some of the most vocal proponents of adding more legislation.

 

[Pancake]

Meanwhile in my province (Alberta aka Texas North) protestors at abortion clinics have become so bad our NDP (left) government had to pass safe zone legislation. Meanwhile the UCP (right) opposition party walked out of the debate a dozen times or so, refusing to even discuss because they said it was just political optics.

Now, they probably aren’t wrong, our premier can be hella savvy that way while maintaining an innocent look. She created a situation that gave the UCP two choices: support legislation for safe spaces and risk alienating their religious base, or argue against it and prove to Albertans that they are in fact still very socially conservative regardless of the recent rebranding exercise. But they managed to come up with a third, walk out en masse. Ridiculous.

Alberta passes bill creating no-protest zones around abortion clinics

 

[Ishina]

Forced pregnancy seems like the kind of thing you'd hear about in courtroom evidence after a horrifying rape cult had been exposed, not mainstream thought in a civilised society.

 

[Beebo Brink]

The world is regressing and Right wing fervor is always based on fear. So the big question is: What is happening at a global level to instill deep fear in the general populace?

 

[Ishina]

I guess fear is a good motivator to action. The left have the numbers and progressive policies have overwhelming support, so obviously there is some disconnect or lack of motivation to see it through. Maybe the left need a dose of fear to wake the fuck up. Maybe they'll get their shit together and form a stable and effective opposition once fear takes hold of them. Hopefully it wont be too late or too bloody. We've been down this road plenty of times and it never ends well.

 

[Isabeau]

Each section of the country has their own type and it is usually based on a collective fear. I often compare the Maritimes with coastal New England in their sort of conservative leanings. The western provinces I associate with religious fundis, and yes, even in the BC interior. In Vancouver, just head out of the city proper and you'll find plenty of people who aren't hippy/urban beach types, There is a still lot of racism towards First Nations communities in the centre of the country, etc etc etc. Generally, in each province, the interior/northern more rural parts are, I guess we can say, closed-minded.

In Quebec, we have a deep fear of losing our language, our culture, along with our independence because of our recent past with the Catholic Church and the British, so... xenophobia. I wouldn't be able to analyze why, in the area of Alberta, it is more about religious morals. Here, people mostly are either pro-choice or for LGBTQL rights, or at the very least, accept/tolerate. I can't even imagine serious political discourse against these matters. Our worst loudmouths are mostly near the Quebec city area and blabber on about overly PC culture and immigrants at the border, sprinkled with a few comments about how men can't flirt anymore without risking jail time.

These people have always been around in Canada. Whenever we get all smug about ourselves, or when others praise our so-called progressive ways, I cringe a little because the same types you see elsewhere (MAGAs, Brexit worshipers, Trumplike sexists, etc.) are also here. They have just been laying dormant until recently. Your question is why now.

Because they have been emboldened by what they are seeing elsewhere in Europe and US. Because we have less and less money, because there is a widening gap between the haves and the have-nots. Add to that the general hoplessness many young people feel about the future. Climate change, animals going extinct... do we even have a future? We are feeling insecure so we are falling back to authoritarian types (papas) like religious or political leaders. We want black or white answers. It's wrong or it's right. It's moral or it isn't. None of that subtle shit. We want a recipe that we can follow to the T which will guarantee us a better life.

Anyway, that's what I think. When there is uncertainty, we are more concerned about our immediate family and community. ''I've got my own.'' We want someone to blame. Like that slut who got knocked up. It's easier (and cheaper) to care about a foetus than it is about actual live children. Just listen to your ''papa'' he knows best.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Yes, it does seem that we are living through a reactionary period. It seems to be a phenomenon that is affecting countries that are traditionally open and have made strides toward equality, while at the same time reducing economic opportunity. The backlash seems to be against anything deemed threatening against the domination of a certain archetype. Meanwhile, to me, that archetype has more, not less, power than ever, largely due to having all the money and using it worldwide to manipulate political structures. Factor in that they have the loudest voice, even in the age of the internet, and they can mold public opinion by using techniques and/or propaganda to alter public perception and they can and do skew most any discussion as they wish.

I saw this recently:
Abortions by mail are available now in the US. Here’s what you need to know.

What are folks' opinions on this? Ignore that it focuses on US. Is this something that people can possibly foresee as allowing the people to bypass existing or upcoming draconian laws? Would it, too, become a battleground? Obviously, I wouldn't necessarily call outdated pills sold with no oversight a "safe" alternative but I'm thinking more that this could well become kind of a technological underground method that essentially becomes the new hanger method.

 

[Isabeau]

I saw this recently:
Abortions by mail are available now in the US. Here’s what you need to know.

What are folks' opinions on this? Ignore that it focuses on US. Is this something that people can possibly foresee as allowing the people to bypass existing or upcoming draconian laws? Would it, too, become a battleground? Obviously, I wouldn't necessarily call outdated pills sold with no oversight a "safe" alternative but I'm thinking more that this could well become kind of a technological underground method that essentially becomes the new hanger method.

I think those types of pills are offered free here, or rather they are included in the health insurance services. Maybe not all provinces, I'm not sure.

I think it's a good idea if there are no other choices. I would be worried that if there were complications, someone with no health coverage such as in the US might not seek medical attention. Could be very dangerous for the unlucky few.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Is this something that people can possibly foresee as allowing the people to bypass existing or upcoming draconian laws? Would it, too, become a battleground?

As the Vox article mentions, women in Northern Ireland -- which has a devolved legal regime, separate from the mainland UK's laws in England and Wales, and in Scotland (which, again, has its own laws) -- do exactly this, even though it's illegal. Elsewhere in the UK, they're readily available (as part of the NHS) on prescription through local doctors and through abortion clinics and advice centres.

I don't think there are particularly strong medical arguments against supplying the drugs this way -- there were moves to make it available as an over-the-counter drug in the UK last year, so you could buy it without a prescription at all -- but obviously it's highly undesirable that women should be at risk of prosecution when they find themselves with no lawful alternative. And, as Isabeau says, for some women they are not suitable, and those women must have a safe alternative.

 

[detrius]

In Quebec, we have a deep fear of losing our language, our culture, along with our independence because of our recent past with the Catholic Church and the British, so... xenophobia. I wouldn't be able to analyze why, in the area of Alberta, it is more about religious morals. Here, people mostly are either pro-choice or for LGBTQL rights, or at the very least, accept/tolerate. I can't even imagine serious political discourse against these matters. Our worst loudmouths are mostly near the Quebec city area and blabber on about overly PC culture and immigrants at the border, sprinkled with a few comments about how men can't flirt anymore without risking jail time.

Also don't forget their dreaded pumpkin armada.

 

[detrius]

Regarding the OP, I'd suggest looking for foreign funding.

It's known that fundamentalist Christian organizations from the US have sponsored radical anti-gay laws in African countries - so it seems obvious to me that those people would also interfere with the inner politics of their Northern neighbour.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

US special interest groups are balls deep in Canada. Even the Kinder Morgan oil pipeline still has American lobby groups playing tug of war with Canadian public.

 

[Bamboo Stick]

The world is regressing and Right wing fervor is always based on fear. So the big question is: What is happening at a global level to instill deep fear in the general populace?

People aren't smoking enough weed. Everyone needs to come to Canada, smoke a doobie and chill out!

 

[EmpressOfCommunism]

Alberta has a long history of stubborn conservatism, and there are indeed outside religious groups coming in to apply pressure. What comes to my mind immediately are 'street church' orgs that stand on the corner with bull horns screaming that Canada ought to be a Christian theocracy while deflecting criticism by saying the critic "hates them feeding the homeless". They tend to feed the homeless junk, though, and get really upset at local mosques for also feeding the homeless, but with healthier tastier middle eastern food. These people are also guaranteed to be the ones creaming at abortion clinic users. Alberta is a confused mess at the moment. I think being the energy heart that's going to be destitute when oil collapses is part of the fear that's making people edgy, hyper religious, and hateful.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Alberta has a long history of stubborn conservatism, and there are indeed outside religious groups coming in to apply pressure. What comes to my mind immediately are 'street church' orgs that stand on the corner with bull horns screaming that Canada ought to be a Christian theocracy while deflecting criticism by saying the critic "hates them feeding the homeless". They tend to feed the homeless junk, though, and get really upset at local mosques for also feeding the homeless, but with healthier tastier middle eastern food. These people are also guaranteed to be the ones creaming at abortion clinic users. Alberta is a confused mess at the moment. I think being the energy heart that's going to be destitute when oil collapses is part of the fear that's making people edgy, hyper religious, and hateful.

We get groups "christian" groups complaining about that in the US too while thinking they have a monopoly on doing good works like that. I do have to wonder how often it occurs to their members to do things like randomly buy a bit more for lunch to hand out the same thing you are eating to someone begging for food.

I had one of their "charities" send me a guilt letter once accompanied by some cheep albatrosses no doubt made overseas in bulk. As it happened I had just returned from shipping a huge box of things to the same group they were using (badly) as an excuse to collect money for. This resulted in my writing a letter back to them telling them just how I felt about their scam and ended with yelling at them in another language.