2024 Presidential Debate

[Cristiano]

ABC News interview with Biden will now air as a ‘primetime special’ on Friday

 

[Beebo Brink]

he's probably not the best candidate the Democrats could find if they put their minds to it

My impression is that British elections don't campaign for anywhere near as long as Americans are wont to do. By our standards, starting a new candidate in July is akin to a political suicide mission. I can't think of a single Democrat candidate who is well-known, well-liked and has built enough capital with all the necessary factions to put together the strong coalition.

If Biden were to step down in favor of Kamala Harris, we'll lose. The combination of misogyny and bigotry in this country would sink her chances. If Harris is dropped from a new ticket, black women would (quite rightly) be royally passed. I don't see how a new candidate would bring enough to the ticket to win.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

Yes, but the fact that, of the two alternatives, Biden is clearly infinitely preferable to Trump doesn't alter the fact that he's probably not the best candidate the Democrats could find if they put their minds to it, and were the Republicans and their candidate anything like the pre-2016 variety it would be no contest.

Which, as I said, I think is a red herring. It's JULY, far too late to change horses in the campaign. And Biden has said he will not drop out. So it sounds to me, just based on those two things, the entire discussion is a moot point and a harmful distraction from the job of crushing Trump.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

Ffs... I was trying to help my liberal Mom learn how to find her texts on her iphone yesterday. My sister has disabled text notifications and buried the app icon. I dug it out, showed her how to use it, practiced a few times, left notifications off... She'll look for them when she wants to.

Came back today and saw she had nearly 300 gddmfking texts in 24 hours from every gddmfking GOP headliner, going on and on about the gddmfking debate, immunity, gender, immigration, and so much gddmfking more.

Dad doesn't have a cell phone of his own so he's been using her number when he goes browsing. Idiot.

I read through several as I was trying to delete/block them...(I hate iPhones, and don't know where the select all & incinerate button is). They were Profoundly Manipulative, dishonest, enticing, I can see how lonely old aimless, forgotten people can get brainwashed by the constant personal-seeming attention.

The daily spammers on the left aren't in the same class, or even near it

I gave up. Buried the text app again. "Sorry Mom, maybe someday we'll get you a new phone number.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I'm considerably more worried about Trump's commitment to NATO than I am about Biden's.

We've all got to acknowledge that the world has changed, and with it its alliances. Long before the Ukraine war happened, the geopolitical main focus of the US moved away from Europe to the Indopacific area. The reason why is simple: because the PRC is on the rise there.

Due to Ukraine war something happened, which many American security advisors always wanted to avoid at all cost and viewed as very bad for the US: a pretty close collaboration between Russia and China.

The Ukraine war also brought to the light that the Western military complex at the moment is inferior to Russia's when it comes to producing ammunition. Russia produces 3x artillery shells than America&Europa do combined for that war. (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html).

Also a lot of the stockpiled American ammunition has been already fired in Ukraine.

So regardless who becomes 47, Ukraine will be a minor priority for America, because for them the big party is in China. Not paying enough attention to China is something the USA cannot risk and will not dare to do, because the PRC is challenging America's status as global superpower, while Russia clearly is not. Europe will have to pay much more for its security in the future, and do much more alone. The US will pull out mostly, like they did before 2022. That Europe needs to do much more military wise is a speech the Americans give to the Europeans since somewhere around the 80s.

The only difference between Trump and Biden would be that Trump probably would be quite quick in initiating changes, while Biden would make it smoother but nonetheless in the same direction.

So to put it short: the days when European security was mostly done by the Americans in NATO are counted, and will be over soon. And this will happen sooner or later regardless who is sitting in the White House.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Ffs... I was trying to help my liberal Mom learn how to find her texts on her iphone yesterday. My sister has disabled text notifications and buried the app icon. I dug it out, showed her how to use it, practiced a few times, left notifications off... She'll look for them when she wants to.

Came back today and saw she had nearly 300 gddmfking texts in 24 hours from every gddmfking GOP headliner, going on and on about the gddmfking debate, immunity, gender, immigration, and so much gddmfking more.

Dad doesn't have a cell phone of his own so he's been using her number when he goes browsing. Idiot.

I read through several as I was trying to delete/block them...(I hate iPhones, and don't know where the select all & incinerate button is). They were Profoundly Manipulative, dishonest, enticing, I can see how lonely old aimless, forgotten people can get brainwashed by the constant personal-seeming attention.

The daily spammers on the left aren't in the same class, or even near it

I gave up. Buried the text app again. "Sorry Mom, maybe someday we'll get you a new phone number.

My heart goes out to you!

I wish I could convince my parents that the right wing media they consume is specifically designed to manipulate those with some cognitive decline. The fear mongering specifically targets them and is very effective. Contrapoints also had a great video on the simplistic fear mongering messages from fascists is just so much easier to process than the more complex truths.

EDIT: The opening sequence of this video covers it (don't need to watch the whole video):

 

[Innula Zenovka]

We've all got to acknowledge that the world has changed, and with it its alliances. Long before the Ukraine war happened, the geopolitical main focus of the US moved away from Europe to the Indopacific area. The reason why is simple: because the PRC is on the rise there.

Due to Ukraine war something happened, which many American security advisors always wanted to avoid at all cost and viewed as very bad for the US: a pretty close collaboration between Russia and China.

The Ukraine war also brought to the light that the Western military complex at the moment is inferior to Russia's when it comes to producing ammunition. Russia produces 3x artillery shells than America&Europa do combined for that war. (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html).

Also a lot of the stockpiled American ammunition has been already fired in Ukraine.

So regardless who becomes 47, Ukraine will be a minor priority for America, because for them the big party is in China. Not paying enough attention to China is something the USA cannot risk and will not dare to do, because the PRC is challenging America's status as global superpower, while Russia clearly is not. Europe will have to pay much more for its security in the future, and do much more alone. The US will pull out mostly, like they did before 2022. That Europe needs to do much more military wise is a speech the Americans give to the Europeans since somewhere around the 80s.

The only difference between Trump and Biden would be that Trump probably would be quite quick in initiating changes, while Biden would make it smoother but nonetheless in the same direction.

So to put it short: the days when European security was mostly done by the Americans in NATO are counted, and will be over soon. And this will happen sooner or later regardless who is sitting in the White House.

My big worry is what happens next if Russia is successful in Ukraine.

What happens if Putin's next move is to annex a small part of one of the Baltic republics, moving, or trying to, the border with, for example, Estonia a few kilometers to the west by occupying the area and waiting to see what, if anything, NATO does something about one of their members being invaded.

That's a frightening enough prospect at the best of times, since I question how willing the governments of most NATO countries would be at the best of times to face a direct military confrontation with Russia over a small tract of territory on the edges of the alliance, particularly if the far-right do as well as they are expected to in the forthcoming elections in many European NATO member states this year.

With Trump as President, Putin could be confident that the US would certainly not want to get involved militarily, and that little, if any, US military aid would be forthcoming either. That, to my mind, would make such an invasion all the more likely, and if that happens, I can see NATO collapsing as part of the alliance goes to the defence of a member state, and others don't.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Which, as I said, I think is a red herring. It's JULY, far too late to change horses in the campaign. And Biden has said he will not drop out. So it sounds to me, just based on those two things, the entire discussion is a moot point and a harmful distraction from the job of crushing Trump.

I don't dispute that it's probably far too late to do anything about it, though I assume that over the last year of so both the Democrats and the Republicans must have considered the possibility that, if they choose a candidate in his late 70s, there's a realistic possibility that he'll experience some serious, and possibly disabling, medical issue between now and November, and that they'll have made some plans about what to do in such an eventuality.

Rather, I'm questioning how on earth the US found itself in this situation. I understand the mechanics and history of it, but the fact of the matter is that the most powerful democracy in the world finds itself confronted with a choice of possible leaders of whom neither, on paper, is particularly suitable. One candidate should never have been under consideration in the first place, and wouldn't be anywhere else. The other is clearly capable, and has a very distinguished record, but is also clearly past his prime and there are major questions about whether he's up to another 4 years in office.

Had the choice of candidates been given to a recruitment agency, I doubt these are the two names they'd have come up with, and I doubt they'd have been paid if they did.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

I don't dispute that it's probably far too late to do anything about it, though I assume that over the last year of so both the Democrats and the Republicans must have considered the possibility that, if they choose a candidate in his late 70s, there's a realistic possibility that he'll experience some serious, and possibly disabling, medical issue between now and November, and that they'll have made some plans about what to do in such an eventuality.

Look at the field of Dem candidates in 2016 to now. Gavin Newsome and a few other people look promising, but who actually had the campaign structure, support and reputation to take on Trump v. 1? Turns out, only Biden had that - aided by Jim Clyburn His promotion to the top spot in the party was a group effort. It worked the way American politics works - halting, mistake-prone, but eventually sorted. I just don't know who else had the gravitas to succeed then or now.

I think it was Goblin who pointed out that all this MAGA nonsense and right-wing nastiness stems directly from us electing a black man for the job. They're still struggling with that idea, even years later.

Rather, I'm questioning how on earth the US found itself in this situation. I understand the mechanics and history of it, but the fact of the matter is that the most powerful democracy in the world finds itself confronted with a choice of possible leaders of whom neither, on paper, is particularly suitable. One candidate should never have been under consideration in the first place, and wouldn't be anywhere else. The other is clearly capable, and has a very distinguished record, but is also clearly past his prime and there are major questions about whether he's up to another 4 years in office.

America has had many historically stupid moments. This isn't our first rodeo.

I think the danger, while real, has been wildly overblown by the press. A President's actions and policies are based just as much on the staff he gathers, much more so than the number of his years. Biden won't be making unilateral policy decisions. Trump, in his next term, would be an unconstrainted existential nightmare. There really is no other choice.

And lastly, if Biden passes away in office I am 100% enthusiastically in favor of Kamala being our first black female president. Screw the naysayers, she's experienced and capable. And there likely will be fallout from that, as well.

If I have my way, the election will be so one sided that MAGA just lays down and dies. I can dream can't I?

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Well, do you know what the US with their bunch of old politicians remind me about strikingly? Well...

This group of old men coming late to power and growing old in it...

Leonid Brezhnev (1906–1982)[45]	14 October 1964[45] ↓ 10 November 1982†[46]	18 years, 27 days	23rd 24th 25th 26th	General Secretary of the Communist Party	Alexei Kosygin Nikolai Tikhonov	Anastas Mikoyan Nikolai Podgorny Himself
In October 1964, Brezhnev replaced Khrushchev as First Secretary of the Communist Party. Despite being the de jure head of the party, he was initially forced to govern the country as part of a troika alongside the Soviet Union's Premier, Alexei Kosygin and Chairman of the Supreme Soviet's Presidium, Nikolai Podgorny. However, by the 1970s, Brezhnev consolidated power to become the regime's undisputed leader. In 1977, Brezhnev officially replaced Podgorny as head of state.[23] At his death in 1982, he received a state funeral.
Yuri Andropov (1914–1984)[47]	10 November 1982[47] ↓ 9 February 1984†[48]	1 year, 91 days	—	General Secretary of the Communist Party	Nikolai Tikhonov	Vasily Kuznetsov (acting) Himself
General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party[25] and Chairman of the Presidium from 16 June 1983 to 9 February 1984.[49]
Konstantin Chernenko (1911–1985)[50]	9 February 1984[50] ↓ 10 March 1985†	1 year, 29 days	—	General Secretary of the Communist Party	Nikolai Tikhonov	Vasily Kuznetsov (acting) Himself
General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party[51] and Chairman of the Presidium from 11 April 1984 to 10 March 1985.[52] However, due to his health and lack of support within the regime, he governed the country for most of his tenure as part of a troika alongside Andrei Gromyko and Dmitry Ustinov.

Are we experiencing now the US going that way the USSR did in the past?

 

[Cindy Claveau]

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

https://x.com/stacycay/status/1808912999287079212

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

Are we experiencing now the US going that way the USSR did in the past?

I feel more that project 2025 sounds like a crystalnacht wanna be, and that if we end up all armed fascist militant racist like Germany did.... What kind of Alan Turing and Oppenheimer... what kind of neo-NATO will rise up to try to stop us? I assume Russia will be the pseudo-Japan to our impression of Nazi Germany.

I guess that would make China the new fascist Italy.

Maybe nothing will curb check us, and the Corporate Police State of the New Federation of Kleptocrats will just parcel up the rest of the world among themselves.

Probably the only group dedicated enough to resist would be the Muslim world, increasingly radicalized by encroaching Western control.

But what do I know... I'm falling asleep at the keyboard, and barely coherent.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I understand the sentiment but I'm increasingly worried the UK and Europe will go down the far right hole after us...

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I understand the sentiment but I'm increasingly worried the UK and Europe will go down the far right hole after us...

We'll know by tomorrow for sure, but every indication is that today's election in the UK will represent a landslide victory for the centre-left.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

We'll know by tomorrow for sure, but every indication is that today's election in the UK will represent a landslide victory for the centre-left.

YOU'RE A CENTRE-LEFT!!!

But yes.... I wish you good luck. I heard France had a striking result for the far right.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

I heard France had a striking result for the far right.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

What kind of Alan Turing and Oppenheimer... what kind of neo-NATO will rise up to try to stop us?

With that nuclear arsenal there will be no alliance of nations stopping doomsday Christians from reducing the planet’s biosphere to radioactive ash. That decision is in the hands of 5% of the world’s voters. And that’s is the various state houses who’ve reserved the right to ignore voters and assign their own electors don’t do just that.

No pressure.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

YOU'RE A CENTRE-LEFT!!!

But yes.... I wish you good luck. I heard France had a striking result for the far right.

Centre-left in British terms, which makes me very far left by US standards. And yes, France has their run-off election on Sunday but the far right are doing worryingly well. Macron keeps on trying to unite the left and right against the far-right, rather as do the Democrats in the US, and it looks as if he may have come unstuck. "Vote for us because the other lot are appalling" only works so many times when you don't have a lot else to offer.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

With that nuclear arsenal there will be no alliance of nations stopping doomsday Christians from reducing the planet’s biosphere to radioactive ash. That decision is in the hands of 5% of the world’s voters. And that’s is the various state houses who’ve reserved the right to ignore voters and assign their own electors don’t do just that.

No pressure.

All the more reason to guantanamo everyone involved in the last fake elector attempt immediately before their revised malfeasance hands T(GD)FG the pardon rubber stamp.