WTF Happened in Iowa?

[Cristalle]

The problem any Socialist candidate is going to have, on a national level and in places that aren't solid blue, is to convince enough voters (besides their base) that socialism isn't ZOMG!!!11!! THE DEVIL!!!1!!11
The Repubs have been hammering that idea home for quite a while now. If Bernie is the candidate, get ready for an onslaught of "scary Socialist" ads, like the ones where they burned (literally) AOC:

AOC image burns in Republican ad denouncing ‘socialism’ during Democratic debate

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez denounced a Republican ad showing her photo being set on fire as a “love letter to the GOP’s white supremacist (base).” The disturbing ad, which ran …

www.nydailynews.com

And this anti-Semitic gem : Rockland County GOP leader vows to re-air ‘anti-Semitic’ attack ad

I hope Bernie can counter these things.

That scaremongering is of little effect on people younger than Gen X. The indoctrination isn't so complete there, especially with Gen Z.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

I will not pretend to be sorry for something which I am definitely not

hahaha, stay out of Canada, dude, you'll get deported, hahaha

 

[Ishina]

The problem any Socialist candidate is going to have, on a national level and in places that aren't solid blue, is to convince enough voters (besides their base) that socialism isn't ZOMG!!!11!! THE DEVIL!!!1!!11

Sanders' policies are overwhelmingly popular with Americans. That's why Trump ran on them.

 

[Romana]

That scaremongering is of little effect on people younger than Gen X. The indoctrination isn't so complete there, especially with Gen Z.

Are you counting the older voters out? I wouldn't take a chance on disregarding anybody. We have to win this one.

Sanders' policies are overwhelmingly popular with Americans. That's why Trump ran on them.

I am remembering the "Harry and Louise" ads that convinced enough people that health Care reform was a bad thing. And please don't dismiss that as Hillary's fault; she was only part of it.
They used the same argument with the ACA (but Obama stood his ground) and have been using it since to try to get rid of it. People believe the "Socialist death panels"crap even though we've always had them (they're called insurance underwriters).
I really do hope Sanders' policies are popular enough outside his fanbase, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have to be ready to combat the fearmongering.

 

[Ishina]

I am remembering the "Harry and Louise" ads that convinced enough people that health Care reform was a bad thing. And please don't dismiss that as Hillary's fault; she was only part of it.
They used the same argument with the ACA (but Obama stood his ground) and have been using it since to try to get rid of it. People believe the "Socialist death panels"crap even though we've always had them (they're called insurance underwriters).
I really do hope Sanders' policies are popular enough outside his fanbase, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have to be ready to combat the fearmongering.

Legislators don't oppose healthcare because it's what the people want them to do. They do it because it's what the insurance and pharmaceutical industry want them to do, or because they see public health as a dump stat when it comes to spending public money.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

That scaremongering is of little effect on people younger than Gen X. The indoctrination isn't so complete there, especially with Gen Z.

We are going to be so screwed up by this coming November. It's going to be like something out of A Clockwork Orange. Medicare for All may be necessary just to keep us pacified in our cages.

 

[Cristalle]

Are you counting the older voters out? I wouldn't take a chance on disregarding anybody. We have to win this one.



I am remembering the "Harry and Louise" ads that convinced enough people that health Care reform was a bad thing. And please don't dismiss that as Hillary's fault; she was only part of it.
They used the same argument with the ACA (but Obama stood his ground) and have been using it since to try to get rid of it. People believe the "Socialist death panels"crap even though we've always had them (they're called insurance underwriters).
I really do hope Sanders' policies are popular enough outside his fanbase, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have to be ready to combat the fearmongering.

I've met people who trot out the socialist label and I'm not saying that they don't count. I'm saying that it's not going to be as big of a thing with the now-majority of voters, so the effect will be diluted.

 

[Anya Ristow]

She had a perfect storm carrying her to victory. I don't think the Overton Window has been anywhere in her vicinity since the '20s.

Welcome to the '20's

Also, disagree that she isn't sitting in the overton window. The establishment isn't ready for AOC, but the Democrat-voting public is.

 

[Anya Ristow]

The problem any Socialist candidate is going to have, on a national level and in places that aren't solid blue, is to convince enough voters (besides their base) that socialism isn't ZOMG!!!11!! THE DEVIL!!!1!!11

Bring it.

There are some common-sense comparisons that are going to be made to the rest of the world. We *need* that. Bernie needs to start talking about socialist hell-holes like Germany, Japan and Norway.

He's begun talking about socialism for the rich. It's an approach we've wanted him to take for four years.

 

[Ashiri]

Bring it.

There are some common-sense comparisons that are going to be made to the rest of the world. We *need* that. Bernie needs to start talking about socialist hell-holes like Germany, Japan and Norway.

He's begun talking about socialism for the rich. It's an approach we've wanted him to take for four years.

One thing to watch out for, it appears that 'socialism' means something different in the US to what it means elsewhere judging by the usage of the label 'socialist' for countries such as Germany, Norway (or NZ)

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

 

[danielravennest]

What I'm wondering is what specific efforts people are making to cause that to happen. When you say, "That's what the Bernie Sanders movement is trying to do. It's the "dem enter" strategy," what does that mean in practice?

For example, what role do individual local branches play in the election of party officials, local and national, and how can party members influence policy making at the state and national level?

If an activist wanted the Democratic Party to commit to -- for example -- a universal health care system, free at the point of delivery, based on clinical need, and to make it a condition that all Democratic candidates for congress and the presidency ran on a party platform including this (and other) commitments, what would she need to do to make this happen?

The specific effort is to get "Progressive" candidates running and elected. The term Progressive is used rather than Socialist because the latter scares some people, and is demonized by others. But the policies are very similar.

I can speak to local branches as I'm a member of the county Democratic Party. US states are divided into counties, except Louisiana calls them parishes. Local government is delegated to counties, and sometimes cities. We don't choose who runs in local elections, but we provide candidates with a platform to get known, and once the primary is done (if there is one), support them against the Republicans. We also support voter registration and "get out the vote" efforts. We do select delegates to the Georgia state convention, where things like party platform are decided. They also choose delegates to the national convention. People running for Congress and State level offices sometimes come to speak at our meetings.

So in terms of influencing policy, it would be by choosing delegates to the state and national conventions. The latter not only endorses the presidential candidate, but also produces the national party platform, which identifies items like universal health care they wish to push. But ultimately, individual candidates for Congress and President have their own platforms, which can differ from the national party platform. We are an individualist country, not an army that marches in lockstep.

 

[Anya Ristow]

One thing to watch out for, it appears that 'socialism' means something different in the US to what it means elsewhere judging by the usage of the label 'socialist' for countries such as Germany, Norway (or NZ)

That was sarcasm. In the USA, "the right" uses "socialism" to describe any new public program to predict failure (including Obamacare aka ACA), by mentioning failed states. Usually failed states that the USA had something to do with, but that's another matter.

In the context of Bernie Sanders running for president as a democratic socialist, we'd like him to mention things that civilized countries have. "The right" wants every social program to sound like a failed, autocratic state, when our models are democratic, capitalist states with sensible social safety programs.

 

[Cristiano]

Trump-Supporting 4chan Trolls Reportedly Flooded Iowa Caucus Hotline With Calls

The organized attack delayed and even blocked precinct officials from reporting caucus results on the phone, NBC and Bloomberg reported.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Kara Spengler]

That's nice. But the real question is, can Bernie beat Trump?

Yes.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Ahem.

xkcd

I told a colleague I think I found the Iowa app ... and did not dare install it on my phone. Which says a lot of what I think of it.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

One thing to watch out for, it appears that 'socialism' means something different in the US to what it means elsewhere judging by the usage of the label 'socialist' for countries such as Germany, Norway (or NZ)

Unfortunately, here in the US, when someone says "socialism", many people - especially the gen-x'ers and older - think of the USSR. Many others cite the failure of Venezuela as an example as well. And they won't see past that.

 

[Romana]

Unfortunately, here in the US, when someone says "socialism", many people - especially the gen-x'ers and older - think of the USSR. Many others cite the failure of Venezuela as an example as well. And they won't see past that.

I don't think it's just Xers and older, with the smear campaign the Republicans have been running. I've seen the right-wing talking points parroted by millennials and zoomers. Never underestimate the power of fearmongering.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

This seems to be the best place to put this link, simply because its about the beginning of primary season, and well, most recent?

If you don't follow this guy, you should. I do not agree with all his thoughts, but they are well thought out ones, and its good insights. imo.


[I put this here not for the title, but for the discussion on what Democrats and anyone else interested in saving this country need to do, even if its not likely.]

 

[Kara Spengler]

Unfortunately, here in the US, when someone says "socialism", many people - especially the gen-x'ers and older - think of the USSR. Many others cite the failure of Venezuela as an example as well. And they won't see past that.

If you are going by age on that it would be the boomers on that. R gen-Xers are not immune but it is hardly all of us.