Politics has turned me into a mess

Beebo Brink

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Don't make the mistake of thinking that what happened in the capital, did apply to the rest of the country as well.
:qft:

The same urban/rural divide exists today and its the conservative values outside the major urban areas that are driving us rightward at such high speed. And this is why I don't trust that we can hold the line.
 

Roxanne Blue

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I've been reading a book called, "The Ministry of Utmost Happiness" by Arundhati Roy. Most of it concerns India and Kashmir. It's an epic story, too complex to try to summarize, like Kashmir itself. Near the end of the novel, one of the main characters tells a (former) Indian security officer, "One day Kashmir will make India self-destruct in the same way (as another security officer did who shot himself). You may have blinded all of us, every one of us, with your pellet guns by then. But you will still have eyes to see what you have done to us. You're not destroying us. You are constructing us. It's yourselves you are destroying."

I have to hope that this is as true for the tribe of fools who have fastened their destinies to Trump and his racist, misogynist, hateful base of those who feel their entitlement threatened by us. They hate us for a good reason. We are the future. They are the past.
 

Jupiter

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I have to hope that this is as true for the tribe of fools who have fastened their destinies to Trump and his racist, misogynist, hateful base of those who feel their entitlement threatened by us. They hate us for a good reason. We are the future. They are the past.
I believe that. It may not feel like it at times, but there has been progress and the U.S. is a better place today than it was 60 years ago. It's also demographically different, better educated, and more liberal in general. What we're seeing is a backlash against that progress, scapegoating, and people desperately clinging to power and privilege.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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I believe that. It may not feel like it at times, but there has been progress and the U.S. is a better place today than it was 60 years ago. It's also demographically different, better educated, and more liberal in general. What we're seeing is a backlash against that progress, scapegoating, and people desperately clinging to power and privilege.
I'm honestly not sure whether to agree or disagree. I agree that what we're seeing is an ultra-conservative backlash against social and environmental progress, mainly by white, middle-aged men feeling their grip on social power and privilege slipping away. But I don't feel like we're a better place today than 60 years ago. So far, that backlash put a misogynistic bigot in the Oval Office, filled Congress with the same, filled the cabinet with evangelical anti-science goons, and are rolling back nearly every bit of progress we had made, particularly in women's and LGBTQ rights, and the Supreme Court is a vote away from swinging far-right. If we don't turn the House and Senate blue this November, then we are well and truly screwed.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Correct.

And fwiw, the USA is far from the the most powerful nation in the world. Power doesn't come from having the biggest military. Power comes from influence. And we have lost so very much under Trump. He's gutted our state department, insulted and alienated our allies, gotten the UN to laugh at his ignorant bluster, screwed up trade, bent over for Putin and made kissy faces with the dictator of one of the least economically significant counties in the world.

Putin's global influence probably far exceeds that of the US right now, which is probably exactly why they helped him win the election. China certainly isn't going let our weakness go unexploited either.
While America's influence on some areas might be dwindling, either because of loosing reputation due to Trump acting like a chimpanzee with a blonde wig, or just because America pulls out of some organizations in a switch of foreign diplomacy, there is still much going on in favor for America.

First and utmost it is the fact, that the US Dollar is still the undisputed global lead currency. This is why the USA have been able to pile up this big amount of national debt, but still exist on a comfortable level, and not go down the road that Greece has been in the last eight years.

And influence comes from many sources: reputation, the key currency, but also the military armed forces. The US army has 768 military installations world wide on five continents, it has by far means the biggest marine in the world and the biggest military budget in the world of 711 billion US$.

To put this in perspective, just take a look at this diagram by the Washington Post, comparing it to the piled up budgets of many other countries in the world:



The most ambitious nation at the moment, which is building global networks and has been for a long time, is by far means now China. China has been minding its own business foremost in Africa since a long time now. Some say that China is the new challenge, while others say China has too much debt piled up by now in its financial system and is in for a heavy collapse soon.

So influence might also come out of respect/fear for this military muscle at the disposal of America. And if America might not be using its military, which it has done many times, its track record of meddling with foreign countries's governments under the euphemistic term of "regime change" is also quite unmatched.

The Russians are no direct match in a confrontation, but they've still got the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and some other weapons to kick heavily somebody into the knee like their nuclear submarines, there's a new missile gap in the hypersonic propulsion area, where Russia and China has made progress while America has not, and it's an arms race at the moment.

Anyway to put this all into perspective from an outside view of America: America is a respected, often feared country due to its capable military and history of military interventions and meddling around in other countries internal affairs by different means, by short its determination and will to fight. This includes most allies, which America has kept in a somewhat friendly but firm hug, which makes sometimes quite clear what might happen, if they would change their mind.

This is where the power of influence comes from, also some admire this; but America is seldom loved due to this kind of behaviour. Also the concept of American exceptionalism is something which many people have problems to grasp, even more due the fact that "All men are created equal" is in the second paragraph of the declaration of independence, but it is a thing in America, and quite an important one.

Many fear the potential havoc America could unleash upon the world, when its influence might really fall down due to external incidents, and not by own choice.

So to make it short: in my opinion America still is the most powerful nation in the world at the moment, even China does not come close at the moment, though this might change somewhere in the future. We're most probably in for a world with some emerging powers, which are most likely going to be China and India. We often tend to forget India, which has a population almost bigger than China, and many things happening there right, too. India is also the biggest democracy world wide, and probably English as second language due to is history of being a former British colony. It also has by the way the biggest muslim population world wide, more precisely India with its former parts combined: Pakistan and Bangladesh.
 
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Shiloh Lyric

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Since the election I have been obsessively following everything in the news, mostly trying to convince myself that 1) things were not as bad as they seemed, and 2) that somebody, somewhere, was going to DO SOMETHING!
If not us, then who?
If not now, then when?

Today is Saturday. My house needs power washed and I have 15 days to do it according to my Landlady. It probably won't rain today, and that's rare, so I should take advantage of that.

My daughter and her bf moved into a place this week, so I can finally be off the sofa (my mom has my old bedroom), and into a bedroom again. I have to finish cleaning that out and getting it all back in order. I should really do that today.

Instead, for 3 hours starting at noon, I'll be out knocking on doors. One of my LEAST favorite things to do on a Saturday after a really rough week and with a ton of chores on my plate. Why? Because it's THAT important. Look, I figured out a long time ago that it's time for US to step up. I'm getting so frustrated with seeing people on Facebook, other places...waiting for someone ELSE to do something. Why? Who are you waiting for? (and I'm NOT patting myself on the back for going out today. It's not to feel special. It's because I feel I HAVE to do SOMETHING and that many of us are shouting into a barrel about the need for everyone to step up)

There is SOMETHING each sane person could be doing and it would get you away from the news and out of your head. It really does, at least for a bit. Our Democracy was broken a long time ago, and I feel responsible in a big way because I was complacent. I just figured if I voted, that was enough. My government would just...WORK. Even if I didn't agree with the people in power, I trusted it to just WORK. Well, I was stupid and naive. I was NOT the only one. But, damn, if I'm going to lose from now on, it's going to be while going down fighting.

Our Constitution starts with "WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES". Who do you think that is?

And that's not to you specifically, really. I'm quoting you because you put it into words. But in general, so many people seem to still be waiting for someone to fix it. The Calvary ain't coming, folks. What there is of one is already here. We ARE the M'fing Calvary.
 

Shiloh Lyric

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Fair warning...might want to wait a few minutes before reacting my posts. I ALWAYS notice mistakes after I post which I need to edit. Or something I feel isn't clear. Even if I read it first. :whistle:
 

Sid

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If not us, then who?
If not now, then when?

... in general, so many people seem to still be waiting for someone to fix it. The Calvary ain't coming, folks. What there is of one is already here. We ARE the M'fing Calvary.
:qft: Exactly that.
No one is coming to shovel away your (general you) snow or :poop: on your sidewalk or door path.
Roll up your sleeves and make yourself heard.
That's exactly what I did in the past, do at the present and will do in the future politically, if needed.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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So to make it short: in my opinion America still is the most powerful nation in the world at the moment, even China does not come close at the moment, though this might change somewhere in the future. We're most probably in for a world with some emerging powers, which are most likely going to be China and India. We often tend to forget India, which has a population almost bigger than China, and many things happening there right, too. India is also the biggest democracy world wide, and probably English as second language due to is history of being a former British colony. It also has by the way the biggest muslim population world wide, more precisely India with its former parts combined: Pakistan and Bangladesh.
The point on which I disagree with you are few. Mainly: Banks and Corporations are their own entity, and while their influence may be based on the U.S. dollar, their agendas are their own. Our federal reserve is more of an 'independent central bank' than an actual agency of our government. (probably not a bad thing).

As far as trade and economic buying power go, America doesn't even make into the top ten of richest countries in the world per capita, and I'm not sure there's a nation on this planet that has a higher degree of consumer debt per person. Our citizens are drowning in school loans, medical bills, interest payments and bad mortgages. It's no wonder that 'emerging markets' are where the financial/trade interests are shifting.

We're a rotting carcass of a great state, ham-strung by corrupt lobbyists/special-interests who successfully replace anyone interested in genuine public service with loyal stupid rubber-stampers who oppose even the most rational and sane changes unless it gives them leverage.
 

Shiloh Lyric

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Unfortunately, the majority of our list were not home today, but we had one really good conversation, so I feel it was a win. (I actually was only able to be out 2 hours, so we had a short rather spread out list, so it was time consuming to complete, so that one conversation isn't as bad as it sounds) WITH a republican. He's leaning toward our candidate, though, although he wouldn't specifically commit to anything other than he'll be voting. So we still marked him as 'undecided' on the MiniVan app we use for canvassing. We agreed on a lot of issues and he was given food for thought, anyway.

Another Republican flat out said we won't change his mind, he's voting straight Republican (hardly surprising), but he was very nice about it. Just didn't want us 'wasting our time' as he said. And thanked us several times for being out there and knocking on doors. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how many people who are surprised to see US. :D
 

Kara Spengler

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By the way when Trump was inaugurated, there was this comparison of his inauguration speech to Bane spreading like wildfire:

Trump is Bane ... some things are making more sense.
 

Jupiter

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I'm honestly not sure whether to agree or disagree. I agree that what we're seeing is an ultra-conservative backlash against social and environmental progress, mainly by white, middle-aged men feeling their grip on social power and privilege slipping away. But I don't feel like we're a better place today than 60 years ago. So far, that backlash put a misogynistic bigot in the Oval Office, filled Congress with the same, filled the cabinet with evangelical anti-science goons, and are rolling back nearly every bit of progress we had made, particularly in women's and LGBTQ rights, and the Supreme Court is a vote away from swinging far-right. If we don't turn the House and Senate blue this November, then we are well and truly screwed.
Consider that 60 years ago, in 1958 in the U.S.:
  • There was no Equal Pay Act promising equitable wages for the same work, regardless of the race, colour, religion, national origin or sex of the worker.
  • There was no Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, prohibiting sex discrimination in employment. There was no Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
  • Married couples did not have a right to use contraception.
  • There was no Title IX of the Education Amendments, prohibiting sex discrimination in all aspects of education programs that receive federal support.
  • Abortion was illegal.
  • Racial segregation was legal.
  • Women could be excluded from juries.
  • It was legal to discriminate against pregnant women.
  • Interracial marriage was illegal.
  • Same sex marriage was illegal.
I know that laws don't automatically fix everything and I totally hear you that things are shit and sliding backwards. But I still believe we're better off today than we were and the only thing that gives me hope in the middle of this shit-storm is that liberals, despite feeling defeated, aren't acting like they're defeated. They seem energised. If anything good can come out of the current political environment, I hope it will be the realisation that we can never become complacent, that progress and our civil liberties are fragile and under constant attack, and we have to remain vigilant and engaged. This is something Republicans have understood for a long time, but Democrats are only just learning.
 

Beebo Brink

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As far as trade and economic buying power go, America doesn't even make into the top ten of richest countries in the world per capita, and I'm not sure there's a nation on this planet that has a higher degree of consumer debt per person. Our citizens are drowning in school loans, medical bills, interest payments and bad mortgages.
:qft:

THIS is what is driving the current meanness in our country. How people deal with fear is a character test, and we're seeing that consistently about 1/3 of the country is more than willing to blame anyone except for the capitalist/corporate White people in charge.

I have no idea how the breadth and depth of American poverty is viewed in the rest of the world. I can't help but wonder if our Hollywood exports -- with so many sitcoms of ordinary people sitting in luxury apartments they could never realistically afford on their salaries -- tends to obscure the reality of our lives here.
 

Jupiter

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I have no idea how the breadth and depth of American poverty is viewed in the rest of the world. I can't help but wonder if our Hollywood exports -- with so many sitcoms of ordinary people sitting in luxury apartments they could never realistically afford on their salaries -- tends to obscure the reality of our lives here.
I can offer two personal anecdotes.

I'm Cuban and, for years, members of my Cuban family on the island thought my family was rich. We're not, but we owned our home, we had three cars, colour TVs in every room, cooling and heating -- pretty basic stuff. But when you can't even buy soap at the local shop, that might look like wealth.

When I moved to Australia, one young woman (who had never been to the U.S.), said to me, "You must be so glad to live here now. I've heard the U.S. is like a third world country."
 

Beebo Brink

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I can offer two personal anecdotes.

I'm Cuban and, for years, members of my Cuban family on the island thought my family was rich. We're not, but we owned our home, we had three cars, colour TVs in every room, cooling and heating -- pretty basic stuff. But when you can't even buy soap at the local shop, that might look like wealth.

When I moved to Australia, one young woman (who had never been to the U.S.), said to me, "You must be so glad to live here now. I've heard the U.S. is like a third world country."
Thank you, both of those were an interesting read.

As a matter of further clarification on my post, I'm well aware that American poverty is not the equivalent of Bangladesh poverty, but the important component is in the way American fortunes have changed. Working class and middle-class Whites had achieved a standard of living that they are now losing. It's that perception of losing what you have "earned" and feel is your just due as part of the American dream that is so enraging to so many. For others, it's knowing their children will never do better, and may actually do worse, than they did.

There are many Americans that weren't royally upset at the unequal distribution of goods in this society until THEY started to get a smaller cut of the pie than before.

That being said, there are pockets of rural and urban poverty here in the U.S. that really are the equivalent of a 3rd world country. Poor sanitation and infrastructure, lack of access to good schools and medical care, and isolation through sheer distance.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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I'm Cuban and, for years, members of my Cuban family on the island thought my family was rich. We're not, but we owned our home, we had three cars, colour TVs in every room, cooling and heating -- pretty basic stuff. But when you can't even buy soap at the local shop, that might look like wealth.

When I moved to Australia, one young woman (who had never been to the U.S.), said to me, "You must be so glad to live here now. I've heard the U.S. is like a third world country."
Well, there's objective and subjective poverty.

Objective poverty is when you don't have some or most of the basic things in life: a home, food, clear water, access to health care, clothes, shoes, stuff like that. And then there is subjective poverty, when you got the objective poverty covered but you cannot afford things which are owned commonly in your country like maybe cars, tvs and such, going on vacation, going out to eat in a nice restaurant and such.

@Beebo: the inequalities you are talking about started a long time ago in America, and they do look like this:

 
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danielravennest

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Consider that 60 years ago, in 1958 in the U.S.:
* We still had lead coming out of auto tailpipes, making people stupid. Those people are still voting.
* There was so much industrial pollution that a river caught fire, and in grade school we had grey-scale cards to measure how dirty the air was.
* Women in congress: 16 then, 104 now. Minorities: 4 then, 106 now.
 

Beebo Brink

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@Beebo: the inequalities you are talking about started a long time ago in America, and they do look like this:
Thanks for posting this reference. I've seen that video many times before, and it still remains one of my favorites for illustrating the magnitude of wealth inequality in America. By both standards -- objective and subjective wealth -- large numbers of Americans are suffering. Not sure what you mean by "a long time ago" though, since that is a vague and subjective phrase. My perception is that it has changed dramatically during my lifetime, which I would put as "recent". Given my age however, you may consider 25-30 years a long time ago. :D
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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When I write "a long time" ago I do mean one historical event: the collapse and demise of the USSR.

As long as there was the USSR, there was a reason for the economy to make sure the USA, western states in Europe and such had a somewhat good spread of wealth, to show the East how far better it is to live in the West, by western standards/democracy, that you can have a nice, comfortable living standard for most in the country, in short that there is a nice, prosperous, growing middle class, which is doing well. In America it might have started a little bit earlier, with the presidency of Ronald Reagan. But with the end of the cold war all dams broke.

Now that those states have been long gone, there's no need any longer need to view people in any other kind of way as many economists think they are, human ressources, hire and fire so to speak. And down went the wealth for many.
 
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