Police Brutality Protests Thread

[Argent Stonecutter]

Fuck you for calling me a liberal -I'm a leftist, damnit.

And I'm in favor of letting the people being targeted -and killed- by police brutality be the judge of how far is "too far".

I started out thinking that but al the examples of obvious police and far-right provocation I'm thinking these are manufactured.

 

[Lexxi]

I started out thinking that but al the examples of obvious police and far-right provocation I'm thinking these are manufactured.

Walz: White supremacist groups, drug cartels suspected at Minneapolis riots, but reports still unconfirmed

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz says he suspects white supremacist groups and drug cartels are carrying out some of the violence in Minneapolis, but cannot confirm it at this time.

Both Walz and Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington said at a press conference early Saturday morning they have do not have confirmed reports, but they have gotten intel from national sources that it is the case.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Wow! I hadn't realised this was US law -- no wonder things are as bad as they are:

In 1967, the same year the police chief of Miami coined the phrase “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” to threaten civil rights demonstrators, the Supreme Court first articulated a notion of “qualified immunity.” In the case of police violence against a group of civil rights demonstrators in Mississippi, the court decided that police officers should not face legal liability for enforcing the law “in good faith and with probable cause.”

Opinion | How the Supreme Court Lets Cops Get Away With Murder (Published 2020)

The courts protected police abuses for years before George Floyd’s death. It’s time to rethink “qualified immunity.”

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | George Floyd, Police Accountability and the Supreme Court - The New York Times

George Floyd Protests liveLatest Updates Protesters Moments Before New York Atlanta Trump’s Response Opinion How the Supreme Court Lets Cops Get Away With Murder The courts protected police abuses for...

www.evernote.com

I'd always assumed the law was something like that in the UK, where the reasonableness of the force used is always a consideration.

That provides ample protection -- some would say too much, in practice -- for the police, but If I've properly understood the US rule, that explains a great deal.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Wow! I hadn't realised this was US law -- no wonder things are as bad as they are:

Opinion | How the Supreme Court Lets Cops Get Away With Murder (Published 2020)

The courts protected police abuses for years before George Floyd’s death. It’s time to rethink “qualified immunity.”

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | George Floyd, Police Accountability and the Supreme Court - The New York Times

George Floyd Protests liveLatest Updates Protesters Moments Before New York Atlanta Trump’s Response Opinion How the Supreme Court Lets Cops Get Away With Murder The courts protected police abuses for...

www.evernote.com

I'd always assumed the law was something like that in the UK, where the reasonableness of the force used is always a consideration.

That provides ample protection -- some would say too much, in practice -- for the police, but If I've properly understood the US rule, that explains a great deal.

Our law is pretty strange here. You would think the people with the most weapons would be the most constrained to use reasonableness but nope.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Our law is pretty strange here. You would think the people with the most weapons would be the most constrained to use reasonableness but nope.

What's even worse than our laws as written is how they get enforced in practice. On paper Eric Gardner's killer shouldn't be walking free, but he is... If the public trusted that George Floyd's killer would be punished by the system, as he should on paper, we wouldn't have riots.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Our law is pretty strange here. You would think the people with the most weapons would be the most constrained to use reasonableness but nope.

In the UK, the basic idea is that the use of force -- whether by police officers restraining a suspect or by a civilian defending herself against an attacker -- has to be reasonable and proportionate in the circumstances as that person understands them at the time.

When it's a police officer, then whether or not the officer was adhering to official policy and training on the use of force by the police in particular circumstances will be a very major factor in deciding on the reasonableness or otherwise of the officer's actions.

It's still very permissive, but that's the basic rule.

 

[Arkady Arkright]

I couldn't swear to it, but I think when I saw your post originally it was a clip, widely shared on social media generally, of the cop firing something (not a bullet -- teargas, baton round, or something) at the journalists covering the protests in (I think) Louisville.

I saw that one, it was pepper-pellets (which I hadn't heard of before).

 

[Jolene Benoir]

This was happening on Broadway in North Mpls yesterday.

 

[Kara Spengler]

What's even worse than our laws as written is how they get enforced in practice. On paper Eric Gardner's killer shouldn't be walking free, but he is... If the public trusted that George Floyd's killer would be punished by the system, as he should on paper, we wouldn't have riots.

Exactly, it is a case of fool me 1000 times.

 

[Kara Spengler]

In the UK, the basic idea is that the use of force -- whether by police officers restraining a suspect or by a civilian defending herself against an attacker -- has to be reasonable and proportionate in the circumstances as that person understands them at the time.

When it's a police officer, then whether or not the officer was adhering to official policy and training on the use of force by the police in particular circumstances will be a very major factor in deciding on the reasonableness or otherwise of the officer's actions.

It's still very permissive, but that's the basic rule.

I love the idea (I assume it is still in use) that the average beat cop over there does not have a gun. If a gun is needed they need to call in someone who is specifically authorized and trained to use it. Meaning situations get deescalated more often than escalated.

 

[Clara D.]

From past protests most likely they are agitators out to look the protestors look bad. They could be antifa, but I equate the two for most purposes.

It's part of the white supremacist tactic to accelerate a race war. On top of agent provocateurs and opportunistic internet anarchists.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Per the Mayor of St. Paul, everyone arrested there last night was from out-of-state.

 

[Pamela]

Wow. Cried.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I love the idea (I assume it is still in use) that the average beat cop over there does not have a gun. If a gun is needed they need to call in someone who is specifically authorized and trained to use it. Meaning situations get deescalated more often than escalated.

Yes, while a lot more cops carry firearms now than used to be the case, primarily because of terrorist attacks, they are all specially trained firearms officers.

If there's a situation where the police are called, or there's a planned operation, and firearms are thought to be involved, then a specialist team of firearms officers will attend, and they're trained to de-escalate whenever possible (though special rules apply when dealing with suspected suicide bombers).

So, for example, when there's a drugs raid and the police suspect there may be guns on the premises, the drugs squad and firearms officers will mount a joint operation involving two separate teams.

In a typical operation, first the firearms officers enter and secure the premises, (5 am is a popular start time for residential premises) and search and disarm the suspects, and then search then search the premises for weapons, while the drugs squad hold back and enter the building only after the firearms officers have completed their search (and made some arrests if they find any firearms that should not be there).

 

[Innula Zenovka]

This is Louisville KY, I think

 

[Sid]

Yes, while a lot more cops carry firearms now than used to be the case, primarily because of terrorist attacks, they are all specially trained firearms officers.

If there's a situation where the police are called, or there's a planned operation, and firearms are thought to be involved, then a specialist team of firearms officers will attend, and they're trained to de-escalate whenever possible (though special rules apply when dealing with suspected suicide bombers).

So, for example, when there's a drugs raid and the police suspect there may be guns on the premises, the drugs squad and firearms officers will mount a joint operation involving two separate teams.

In a typical operation, first the firearms officers enter and secure the premises, (5 am is a popular start time for residential premises) and search and disarm the suspects, and then search then search the premises for weapons, while the drugs squad hold back and enter the building only after the firearms officers have completed their search (and made some arrests if they find any firearms that should not be there).

Sounds like how it works in NL as well, only over here all cops are armed, but when it can be planned, special trained teams take the lead.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

It's not antifa. It's a group of opportunistic alt-right whites who differ from other alt-right groups in that they hate police too.

“If there was ever a time for bois to stand in solidarity with all free men and women in this country, it is now,” the admin for the page wrote. “This is not a race issue. For far too long we have allowed them to murder us in our homes, and in the streets. We need to stand with the people of Minneapolis. We need to support them in this protest against a system that allows police brutality to go unchecked.”

Does the part I underlined above sound....strangely familiar to anyone else?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

AG Barr just now said it was far left. Based on what, I don't know. I can't seem to get the video of what he said, just that he said it.

Arrests nationwide as U.S. sees fifth day of protests over George Floyd's death

He's not likely to annoy the boss by saying some of it's his core constituency, though.

I fear that in AG Barr, Trump has at last found someone willing to act as his Roy Cohn.

(Incidentally, I was delighted to discover the immortal Mandy Rice-Davies is commemorated in the internet acronym MRDA).

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Sounds like how it works in NL as well, only over here all cops are armed, but when it can be planned, special trained teams take the lead.

And the special firearms teams are just that -- they're not SWAT teams unless the police are really expecting trouble, at least not in the UK.

 

[Monica Dream]

I started out thinking that but al the examples of obvious police and far-right provocation I'm thinking these are manufactured.

I was mostly trying to get ahead of bubba's far-right talking point -but catching up to this thread I can definately see that you have a point about it being manufactured...